Podcast Episode 92 Transcript

Episode 92: Short-Term Rentals DEBUNKED With Rich Somers

Are you ready to bring your real estate game to the next level? My name is James Prendamano. I'm the CEO and founder of PreReal. And over the past 25 years, I've closed over a billion dollars in transactional real estate. Each week, a meeting with outstanding investment investors, highperforming individuals and visionaries operating in the real estate space. These are the people that are actually out there in the real estate game right now. Getting It Done this podcast aims at bringing anyone's game to the next level. This is The Prereal Podcast. Welcome everyone, to The Prereal Podcast. We're joined today by Rich Somers. Rich is the founder and CEO of Fortune Cribs, and he has built a portfolio that's so damn impressive in excess of $35 million. He's got an awful lot to offer. We're really excited to have him on the show. Rich, thank you so much for taking time out of the busy schedule for us today. Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm a big fan and I'm excited to dig into this conversation today. It's an honor to be here. Thank you very much. So Rich, people don't wake up with $35 million investment portfolios. Right. And I know that you at one point took a hell of a leap to get into the game. I was wondering if we could talk a little bit about your life before then, talk a little bit about the why, what was happening, and how did we get to making the leap, if you will? Yeah, of course. So I grew up middle class. My mom is an immigrant from Taiwan, and my parents both know the value of working hard for your money and saving your money. I have a background in sales. As I was going to College, I started selling cell phones and then later got into car sales. And that was the first time I realized that I could control to a certain extent of how much I earned. And I wanted to sell commercial real estate at a College. And so I interviewed with CB Richard Ellis and Grubane Ellis, a couple of commercial firms back in 2008 when I graduated. And as your listeners know, the economy was starting to come down at that time. And they pulled both of those internship positions and they said, hey, we love you, you're hustle, but this is not the right time to get into the industry. So I found myself end of 2008, working on a car lot, trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my life. And I backed into a job as an air traffic controller controlling airplanes. And I ended up doing it for eleven years. And along the way, I remembered real estate. And I read the book, Rich Dad, Poor dad. And I said, Man, I got to restructure my life and get into this real estate game. But this time I'm going to do it on the investment side and not on the sales side. And so I did at the time what everyone says. Society says it's a little bit too risky and you shouldn't be cashing out your 401K. But I cashed out my 401K. I pulled out a home equity line of credit against my primary residence here in San Diego, where I live. And I started buying some cash producing real estate. The first deal I did was eleven units in Cincinnati, a C class deal. Shortly after that, I partnered with a couple of guys that I worked with controlling airplanes. And those are still my partners today in one of the businesses. And we JV and Joint ventured on a 32 unit building in Indianapolis. Shortly after that, we launched a podcast. We learned how to raise money, started a networking event here in San Diego and took down a couple of larger syndications last year, 150 units in Greensboro. And then Timber Creek Apartments, which is 145 units, also in Greensboro, North Carolina, bought some short term rentals along the way. And yeah, excited this year. I just recently, a couple of months ago, launched a new company called Fortune Cribs, which is a company to where we help clients buy short term rentals in select markets around the country, which we feel will do good under our management. Our team will design, furnish and manage all the day to day, making the whole process hands off to the client. But they'll own 100% of the deal. And my partners and I are launching a fund here in a couple of months to go buy more short term rentals with our investors. So that's kind of my story in a nutshell. Remarkable. So I listened to the multifamily take off that's Riches podcast. He has two partners there. Definitely a great listen. Now I understand the connection because I believe your two partners just retired now, right? They just left the air traffic control. Now I got it. They just left recently. I think they both just had their last and final shift about two weeks ago, and I couldn't be more excited for them. They're amazing, guys. That's great. So there's got to be a big piece of the story missing here, though, right? I mean, was there a mentor or anyone else in the family deeply entrenched in real estate? What was the inspiration outside of just deciding at that point to take the leap that brought you to real estate? Yeah. So my older sister's husband, my brother in law, he's been a big influence on my life. He broke her small apartment buildings up in the Orange County area. And that was initially why I wanted to sell commercial real estate out of College. And they've bought some small apartment buildings along the way over the years. And I know they've done really well doing so. And so that was part of the inspiration. The other part of the inspiration was really I just wanted to do more. I just kind of felt like after it had been at the time, almost ten years with this air traffic job, I just kind of felt like I wanted to try something different and do a little bit more with my life and maybe construct a lifestyle to where I could start earning a lot of my income passively versus trading my time for dollar. Because I don't know if your listeners are aware, but man, in that industry, as an air traffic controller, it's one that's high stress. You're constantly, like under a lot of pressure. When it gets busy, it's a lot. But the workload is a lot. They're short staffed constantly. So you're always working six day work weeks, mandatory overtime, and you might have one day off a week. And it's not going to be on a weekend. It's going to be like on a Tuesday or Wednesday. You do that for multiple years, it starts to really train you. Yeah. So we talk about this often on the show, or at least we reference it. We have a book club here in the office. Those of you who have not had the opportunity to read Rich Dad, Poor dad, it is an absolute must read for everybody. We're 25 years into our careers.

We've done a number of investment deals. We run a real estate brokerage. We've been blessed with some success in our market. But, boy, is that a transformative book that really helps to highlight and define things that seem incredibly obvious. But until you take the time to really pull it apart in your life, good God, did it have a dramatic impact on us? Yes. No, absolutely. I think a lot of people get into government line of work where you have a pension, because this line, if you do 25 years, you get a pension, they'll pay you the rest of your life. And so it's kind of like that security blanket. And so most individuals that get into it and they don't even fathom the idea of pivoting and leaving to go do some new venture, especially in your adult years. But at the end of the day, like looking back, even cashing out the 401, people will say it's too risky. Looking back, I think my biggest takeaway is this. At the end of the day, a lot of those risks are real, so put some weight on them. But on the other side of the balance scale is another risk, and it's this I could be 80 years old one day laying in my bed, staring at the ceiling, kicking myself because I never tried anything in life. How about that risk? Because that's a risk, too, that a lot of people don't mention. Yeah. Without question. There's a great blog, folks on Rich's website also where he chronicles one of the ones I really enjoyed was some mistakes that you've made over the years and you really go through detail. I believe this one was about a 1968 building you had bought and some of the things that you would and would not repeat, more importantly, moving forward. So in that context, you're deciding to take this leap. You pull money out of the 401K, you pull a HELOC on the home. The biggest challenge I find for us and for many people we talk to is when you're making that first investment, where do you start geographically? How did you identify where you were going to put your flag down first? How do you land on an emerging market or a market that you enjoy? Yeah. So with that 32 unit deal in Indianapolis, my two partners and I, we had a certain ability to buy, and so we knew our ability to buy what we could afford. And we started underwriting deals in various markets around the country. And as we were running underwriting deals, we realized that a lot more of the yield and the cash flow, which is what we are looking for because we are ultimately trying to get out of our day jobs, led us to the Midwest. And within the Midwest, you got a bunch of different markets, some with declining population growth, some with declining employment growth, and some with growing employment growth and population growth. And so we knew that we wanted to go into a market that had high cash flow, population growth, employment growth, and a lot of other good metrics that we like to look at, such as the neighborhood, the schools and that sort of thing. But our research brought us to a few different markets, and so we really went deep in those markets in terms of building relationships with the brokers, et cetera. And this particular deal was brought to us off market by a broker who it was kind of a pocket listing, if you would. He had a relationship with this seller. This seller was older. Her husband had passed away a few years back. They had owned about four or five buildings in this area, and they were starting to sell them off because they were getting a little bit older. And this particular building had all the issues, but it was in a good location. It was in a good submarket about 15 miles south of downtown Indianapolis called Greenwood, good schools, growing population and a lot of good retail and stuff like that near the property. It just happened to have a lot of issues had down units, a lot of deferred maintenance. And we were lucky we were able to secure that thing up. We had a lot of ups and downs within the whole period, but we actually were able to just exit out of the property about a month ago and go full cycle on our first deal. And, yeah, we were able to Rex the value of the property in about 25 months. Wow. So did you have any thoughts or concerns at that point about scale? And by that, I mean, you buy a 35 unit building or 100 unit building many times operationally. It's similar staff, just like a hotel would be. You can get up to X amount of doors, and the more doors you add, the higher the profit gets because that staff can handle X amount. Were you guys thinking about that at that point? We weren't thinking about that too much. We were just trying to figure out a way to buy as many units as we possibly could, given our ability to buy in a decent location. And as you close that deal, did you then buy more units in that area? You know what? We didn't. We continue to source deals in the same Indianapolis market, but we weren't able to find any deals to pencil, and we were looking at quite a few different other markets. But now the next one after that was the Arbors, which was 150 units in Greensboro, North Carolina. So a common theme as we talk to more and more folks that are having amazing success in this field, it's relationships connecting with the brokers, connecting with the managers, the folks that actually have boots on the ground in those areas. Would you say that that's a good starting point for people. They really have to get a handle of who the boots are on the ground? Yeah, absolutely. I would always suggest starting with getting to know all the brokers in whatever market that you're trying to go deep in, because those brokers are going to be your gatekeepers to all the deals, and they're also going to have relationships with a lot of the property managers in the area. I think the other team member that's very key is obviously the property manager, because I think they're the most crucial part of your business plan outside of the asset management. But someone's got to integrate it, right? Yeah, without a doubt. So you take this building down, you're finding opportunities to source deals where there's a nice spread.

The market is getting more and more competitive. So where is Rich looking when he's trying to source deals today? Yeah. So it's been very challenging for us to find deals to pencil in this climate. As you know, cap rates have compressed, yields have come down. There's a lot of demand for multifamily. There's a lot of demand for a lot of real estate across the country for very valid reasons, of course. And then we're seeing a lot of inflation with all the money that's been printed. So for us, it's been challenging to find deals with pencil. And I think a lot of it comes down to your assumptions when you're underwriting these deals. What are you assuming for rent growth? We like to assume 3%, but we're seeing 15% like nationwide rent growth. Right. But you don't want to assume that. So it's hard to come to arrive to a number that is going to be enough to be awarded. A lot of these deals and so for us, particularly in the markets that we're sourcing deals, it's been challenging. I know other operators that we're friends with, they're getting deals done in different markets. But for us, we're going to pivot our attention this year and focus on scaling the short term rental side of the portfolio, just because we feel like we can provide and produce a lot better cash flow and ROI for investors going this route at this given moment. So one of the things we've been cautioning, our audience and our clients and partners about over the last year, year and a half, we felt inflation was coming and had to come right. In spite of what so many people are talking heads were saying, it just didn't make sense. When you're printing that amount of money, this is just a byproduct of it. So with inflation, those deals, that the arena we had played in the retail, longer type deals. One would argue it's a safe investment. You have some corporate signatures you're locked in. The other side would argue, as inflation sores, you're actually losing money on that opportunity every year because you've got fixed increases. And almost every time, 99% of the time, your increases are not going to keep pace with what we're seeing from an inflation perspective. One solution for that is short term rentals. Right. You're able to adjust that price point almost weekly as these units turnover. Was that one of the forces that played into the equation as you launched Fortune Cribs? No, it really wasn't. How fortunate Crips came to fruition really was. I knew there was a demand for a product that produces high yield and high cash flow. But one of the two things I heard a lot with clients and just people out there regarding short term rentals is, hey, I'd love to do it, but it's just too much work and I don't want to deal with it. Right. And so I thought, man, what if we could create a turnkey product to where we source deals for clients? We actually find them lending options. We find them everything they need to do. We hold their hand through the whole process from start to finish. And then once they close in the property, they own 100% of it.

And then our team will go design, furnish and manage all the day to day, making it completely hands off for them, including the cleaning, the maintenance, the utilities, the marketing, basically the A to Z. And so far, there's been a huge appetite for this product. Sure. So you're essentially, if I have this right, concierge service that is even, did you say identifying the deal as well? Yeah, we'll even source deals for clients. We just hired a director of acquisitions, actually, in that individual, along with myself, basically sourcing deals for clients. That's super exciting. So I have some money I want to invest. As you said, I don't have or want to be bothered with the infrastructure of getting things up and running. I can give your team a call Rich, and say, hey, I've got X amount of dollars liquid. I'm looking to jump into the short term rental market. You guys find the transaction and walk these people through the entire acquisition. And then you're staging it. You're doing the lease, you're doing the whole thing we're doing and everything. And the reason we're helping out with acquisitions is because if we're going to be doing the A to Z and we're going to be managing these properties, we want to buy the right properties in select markets, in the right neighborhoods to where we know we can produce the best ROI for our investors and our clients. We don't want to buy properties to where we're going to have to continue to push on these things every single day to keep them full. We want to buy properties that are going to keep themselves full. So what areas do you focus on? What are the markets that if I want to do business with Rich, where can I expect to end up purchasing? Yeah. So the biggest risk to this investment vehicle is the change in the regulatory environment. So generally speaking, you want to target markets that are a little bit more landlord friendly. Those types of States and areas tend to have a more relaxed stance against short term rentals. To give you a good example, a lot of areas like Los Angeles, New York, have very strict regulatory environments towards short term rentals. And I get it. Some of the reasons behind it are okay. An outside investor is able to pay up a lot more than the everyday buyer that's going to be leaving at these properties as a primary residence. So it's driving up the median sale price of these properties. It's also taking away from the long term rental market supply because people are coming in and renting them in short term rentals versus long term. So that's driving up rent prices. But also you're always going to have some bad operators that are irresponsible. And I get it. Some of these families have lived in these neighborhoods for decades and generations. And if you have a couple of irresponsible operators that are hosting guests that are throwing parties and creating noise for these neighborhoods, that can be a nuisance. So I totally understand all those things. But on the flip side, you have areas like Arizona, areas like Indiana that actually have a completely different stance on short term rentals. They have a pro business and real estate stance. And their sentiment is like, hey, we want to encourage tourism to our state because it helps stimulate our economy.

So I would argue that and we've talked about it very candidly here going back since we started the show two years ago. Regulatory risk is now at the top of every SWOT analysis, every single deal that we look at. We are so hyper focused on that because locally, the regulatory risk has gone far beyond just short term rentals. It has really had a profound impact on every asset class. And you're starting to see that translate, unfortunately, now where folks are trading in their investments and their address in cities like New York, and they're heading to other markets, the reason rich people tolerated a much higher regulatory barrier, if you will, or bar, was because the opportunity still was worth the pain. Right. It was still worth going through those additional Hoops. And I'm talking about the good operators, the bad operators we have no patience for. Right. We're not fly by night. You guys are not fly by nights. We're not even entering that arena. But the good operators still were facing such challenges from a regulatory perspective. And I think as you touched on many times, the legislation is well intended. There are the bad apples, and because of them, the powers that be are often tabling legislation that while it's intended to do the right thing in practice, it often does not. In fact, it has the opposite effect. It's caused companies like ours to completely leave entire market segments because of the regulatory risk. And with that, a vacuum is created and income is the bad actors, and it just doubles down and compounds that. So from a regulatory perspective, I think we're all feeling that in every class, if you will, asset class, where the regulatory risk has created challenges and we're opting for those friendlier markets where there isn't quite that bar. So you're taking these investors and you're plugging them into these deals. What can I expect when I want to pursue a property? Is it a 30% or 40% down? What type of financing options are they? Can we walk through almost like a sample deal. So the audience understands if they wanted to acquire property like this, what are the expectations? Yeah. So typically you can expect to put down anywhere from 10% to 20% on a short term rental. The second home loan, which is a fancy Freddy conforming residential loan product, is actually just 10% down, but they have a limit of 700K. And so in a lot of high cash flow markets, we can buy a brand new construction four bedroom for less than 700K, 10% down. The design and furnish costs for a typical four bedroom is going to be about $40,000, maybe 45k. So with the 10% down and the design furnish, you're going to be all in for maybe 100K or less. And most of the deals that were doing with clients are penciling out to anywhere from 20% to 30% cash on cash returns. And that's after all expenses, after our management fee and after debt service. So 20% to 30% cash on cash return over what period of time? Over annual period. So 20% to 30% per year. Per year.

Yeah. So you can essentially get your money back in four years or less just from the cash flow. Wow. Yeah. And this is not even taking into consideration the long term appreciation, the loan pay down and the tax benefits. Wow. And because this is an investment property, there are some other tax advantages folks may be able to take advantage of as well. There I would assume that this is 1031 exchange eligible. Yeah. 1031 exchange eligible. And then if our clients opt to opt for it, we always suggest let's do a cost SEG study so we can facilitate the whole cost segregation study as well to further increase the tax benefits and the bonus depreciation. Could you speak for a few minutes about cost segregation and what that is? Yeah, of course. So cost segregation is a study that you can have performed on any sort of investment property, any type of asset class. And basically it's just compiled of some engineers will go in and some CPAs, and they'll come up with a report that basically spruces up, if you would, for a lack of better terms, a lot of the major components that are on a replacement schedule within the property, such as the cabinets, the flooring, the HVAC, the roofing, all those components within the property, even the furniture. And they will give you a report that you can then give to your CPA, and your CPA will be allowed to use that to really juice your bonus appreciation and your write offs, if you would. Generally speaking, about 25% of your all in cost will be a bonus appreciation. So if you buy a million dollar project, about $250,000, you'll be able to bonus there. I appreciate. Are you targeting assets? Do they have to be on a Lake or do they have to have those types of amenities or what does it typically look like? Yeah. So we're looking at properties in all different markets around the country. We do like vacation towns because the regulatory environment there seems to be a little bit more relaxed. And a lot of these vacation areas, Lake towns, mountain towns, ski towns, et cetera, vacation rentals have been around for decades and decades, far before Airbnb or Verbo became popular. And so we like those areas, but we also like some of the other metros that are bigger cities but have relaxed regulations. So a few markets that come to mind. Scottsdale, Arizona, is a very good short term rental market.

They get 12 million visitors a year. There's spring training baseball out there. They got the four major sports. They got professional golf. And that's a very, very from a regulatory standpoint, it's a very relaxed market to go into. We like areas like Indianapolis, Tampa in some of those areas. So is there a place in the program? Rich, if I have a vacation home that isn't in a location that your company services, is there an opportunity for us to contact your team and say, hey, I have this house on Lake William Paw Pack, and we never get up there. I'm always working the usual story. Is there an opportunity for you to take existing assets or is it only assets that go through the acquisition process with you? We will 100% take on an existing asset if the deal makes sense for us. So for us, we really want to stick to new construction or fully renovated properties. And that doesn't mean it needs to be a high price point, but it could be a lower price point. But we just want to put out a good quality product out there in the marketplace. And we always strive to be in the top 90th percentile of all short term rental listings in whatever given market we go into. So to answer your question, yes, we'll look at existing properties for clients. If the deal makes sense, we'll totally manage it for them. And then also another arm of the business is the master lease. So if we have a client with an existing property and they don't want to invest in designing and furnishing, we can actually do a long term lease. We can do a two to three year lease agreement. We'll actually pay them 10% to 15% above market rate. We'll invest in their property in terms of the design and furnish in exchange for the right to sublease it as a short term rental. Wow. So in the program, do you find these things to typically be seasonal? Are you never going to go and use the house as the owner, or are there block out periods or how does that work? Yeah, our owners can use their properties whenever they want. All they have to do is just let us know what dates they want to block out. We will block out the schedule for them. They can go visit the property at any time, which is kind of cool because not only do you get to vacation at your own place, but also if you ever want to get eyes on your property, it's easy to do so versus having a long term in there. But what we're telling clients and what our clients are discovering now is the cash flow is so good that the opportunity cost of booking your own place is more expensive than what they're willing to give up. You're better off just taking the cash flow and using that money to go vacation wherever you want. So what does Occupancy look like? What can we expect? How often are you filling these units up? Yeah, we make our money when we operate. There's a lot of third party management companies out there, but I don't think there's anyone doing it exactly to how we're doing it. But market Occupancy can fluctuate anywhere from 45% to 60%, depending on market. But we always strive to operate at 90% or greater, and that's really what we do with all of our assets. We manage these properties as if they're our own. My short term rentals that I own are actually also managed by Fortune Cribs. And so we've implemented a lot of the same strategies to keep the Occupancy 90% and up for all of our units. So once you've completed the staging and everything is ready to roll, do I have to then get involved with collecting money from people in security or does it go through you and you pay out the distribution? How does that all work? Yeah. So we handle everything. So we handle all the reservations, the cleaning, the management, the turns, all the guest communications. We can even handle the utilities on behalf of our owners. All the revenue comes into our account and then we pay all the expenses out of our account. And then at the end of each month, we send our owners a statement which will have like a profit and loss for the month. And then they'll also receive ACH payment. So I don't even have to be involved in the collection security. No, you don't have to do anything. It's all taken care of, man. The A to Z. Wow.

And I'm sorry for all the questions, but as I'm thinking about this right now, I have a small exchange. We have 450 or 500 in exchange. And being in the business, it's funny. You find and source deals for clients all day long, but when it's yours, it seems like you never have the time to find the right spot. So I would be able to come to you with this exchange. You guys would place the money, we grip it and rip it. What are some of the shortcomings? Do you find that there are issues with the parties with damage in the house. What are some of the cons to the operation? Yeah. So you can eliminate about 99% of bad guests by qualifying and only hosting the right guests. So a lot of this stuff is eliminated on the front end. So we tend to only host guests that have positive reviews from other hosts. We tend to host guests that have positive track records. If there's anything fishy like, let's say a good red flag is this. So if someone has no reviews and they're trying to book a short term rental on a weekend and they also live in the same market where the short term rental is, that's a big red flag. Right. And so we eliminate a lot of that stuff on the front end. That said, there's always going to be some things that are missed. And so let's say in the event that there is a noise issue, we install noise sensors inside and outside of all of our properties and we actually have a decibel level that we set for each one. So if the noise ever goes above a certain decibel level, the guest automatically gets a message. And then in terms of, like, if there's ever a damage or missing item, this rarely, rarely happens. I would say it happens, like, less than 1% of the time. It's usually something that we can come to an agreement with the guests. They'll just pay us for it and it's completely taken care of at that level. If not, we can escalate it with Airbnb. They have a program to where they'll actually take care of you up to X amount. And then if it's not taken care of at that point, then your insurance, a short term rental insurance would kick in, and then after that, you would have liability insurance if you have an umbrella and that sort of thing. But it's rarely gone to Airbnb, and then we've never had to escalate it past that point. It's a hell of a program here. You make this transition, and in the multifamily space, you're enjoying significant success. Rich, what's the reason for taking this step and launching another company? What's the why for you? Yeah, it all goes back to what we mentioned earlier. It's been very challenging to find multifamily deals to pencil.

And like I mentioned earlier, along the way, I backed into some short term rentals. And like, man, even through the pandemic, I'm looking at these properties and they're just completely booked, and these things are cash flowing like crazy. And so I'm like, man, why are we forcing multifamily right now? We'll go back to it down the road when the opportunity might be better. But for right now, I'm like, why aren't we scaling the short term rental side of the portfolio? And so with that, we're like, man, let's launch a fund this year and let's go buy some more short term rentals with our investors. And it got me thinking. I'm like, man, there's not a turnkey service that actually does acquisition, design and management in the short term rental space. And I thought, there's got to be a huge demand for it. Let's put some dealers out there and see we did that. And the demand has been tremendous thus far. And so I thought, man, we better start building out the infrastructure. And so I really focused on building up the team, creating the right systems, and now we have the right team in place and we're ready to start scaling this thing. So there's a lot of economic factors now that are driving these things. As we touched on earlier, where do you see the market in two years from now, three years from now, both the multifamily and the short term? Yeah, we could talk about real estate market and where we are for hours. Yeah, I talk about this all the time. So there's two main drivers right now. I'm very bullish on the next three years, and I'll tell you why. 140 percent or more of our economy's currency has been printed in the last 18 to 24 months.

All that money needs to find yield, and they're still printing money as we speak. Number two, and I think this might be the biggest driver is the supply and demand metrics across of America right now. The baby boomers are living longer. They're not moving out of their homes. They're not going into retirement homes as soon as they used to. They're not selling their homes. And then you got this millennial demographic, which are starting families and buying their first homes for the first time. And so now that's creating a big tick up in demand. And then you have this demographic behind us as the Gen Z. They're even bigger than the millennials, and they're looking to move out of their parents house for the first time. They're looking to rent apartments. And so whether it's single family, whether it's apartment units, whatever it is, there's just been a huge shortage. I mean, from 2008 to 2011, they didn't build much supply. And then 2020, there was a period for nine months during the pandemic where they weren't building new supply. And so there's just a lot of pen on demand. And the reason I say the next three years looks safe to me is because I think it's going to take a minimum of three years for them to build enough supply to meet the demand. And yes, there's some other factors that are going on right now with all the stuff in Ukraine and Russia. But let's be honest, if that escalates to something more than what it is today, the government is just going to continue to lower interest rates and they're going to continue to print more money, which is going to bode well in the long term for real estate investors. Yeah, I think and it's not because I'm in the business and I love the business, but I think in times of uncertainty, there is no better place to put your cash than into real estate. It still just proves time and time again to be the safest long term option available. There's a lot of things that come and go, and certainly there's diversification. And I'm a fan of taking risk and trying different things. But, man, it's hard to beat good old fashioned real estate at the end of the day. No, it really is. And I said this about a month ago before they started raising rates, but there was a lot of talk about the inflation. Is the Fed going to start raising rates? And I said this a month ago when rates were still relatively low. I said two years from now, rates will be lower than they are today. And yes, they've gone up since, but I think they're going to be lower two years from now. Yeah. So there's a lot of things at play geopolitical, election cycles. There's a lot of things to keep an eye on. So, like, none of us have Crystal balls, but we will give it our best shot to try and put ourselves and our clients in the best position. Rich, where is the best place for folks to find you? Yeah. So you can find me on social media, Instagram my handles at RichSomers, that's S-O-M-E-R-S. If you want to learn more about fortune, cribs, you can check us out fortunecribs.com and if you want to check out our podcast, it's the multifamily takeoff. And if you want to learn more about the fund that we're going to be launching that's pack three Capital.com, as always, everybody out there. Please stay safe. Rich, thanks so much for the time today. Of course. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on our pleasure.