Podcast Episode 91 Transcript

Episode 91: How To Create Passive Income Without Renters With Mark Podolski

Are you ready to bring your real estate game to the next level? My name is James Prendamano. I'm the CEO and founder of PreReal. And over the past 25 years, I've closed over a billion dollars in transactional real estate. Each week, a meeting with outstanding investors, investors, highperforming individuals and visionaries operating in the real estate space. These are the people that are actually out there in the real estate game right now. Getting it Done this podcast aims at bringing anyone's game to the next level. This is the Prereal Podcast. Welcome, everyone, to The Prereal Podcast. We're joined today by Mark Podolski. He is the owner of Frontier Properties out in Scottsdale, Arizona, and he's the author of Dirt Rich. It's the ultimate guide to helping you build a passive income. Mark specializes in land acquisitions, which is something that we're doing a lot more of. I know it's something that is exploding in at least in our space. So we're super excited to talk through this today. Mark, thanks a lot for joining and taking the time. James Predemoto, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Our pleasure. So let's talk first before we jump into the program. And Mark's got some outstanding resources and, of course, that we'll get into as we get through the podcast. But you didn't wake up, Mark, and one day just decide you are going to be a real estate investor. Right. You had some interesting positions, and there was a pathway that brought you to where you are, which I think is important to provide context. So could you give the audience a little background? Yeah. If we rewind the tape 22 years from now, 2000, I was a miserable micromanaged, 45 minutes commute to work and back investment banker specializing in mergers and acquisitions with private equity groups. And James, it got so bad for me. I wouldn't get the Sunday Blues anticipating Monday coming around. I'd get the Friday Blues anticipating the weekend going by really fast and happy to be back at work on Monday. So my firm hires this guy, and he's telling me that as a side hustle, he's buying up raw land, pennies on the dollar. He's flipping them online and he's making a 300% return on his investment. And James, I'm looking at companies all day long. A great company. Great. Has 15% EBITDA margins for free cash flow. Average companies 10%. And I'm looking at companies all day long, less than 10%. So I don't believe so. I've got three grand saved up for car repairs. I go to New Mexico with him. I go to a tax deduction. I do exactly what he tells me to do. I buy up ten and half acre parcels, an average price of $300 each. I flipped them online, and they also for an average price of $1200 each. It worked. So I took all that money. I went to another auction. And this is in Arizona, which is where I live and this is 2000. There's no one in the room. And I'm buying up lots of acreage for nothing. I saw all that land and I made over $90,000 cash. So I go to my wife and she's pregnant. She said, honey, I'm going to quit my job and become a full time land investor. And she's like, absolutely not. So I said, okay. So it took me about 18 months to land investing income to exceed the investment banking income. And then I quit. I've been doing it full time ever since. I've done over 6000 deals. I love it. So to give the audience proper context. And so I understand the story, correct. You were selling businesses at that point, right? Correct. So this was a client who came in, not a client. This is an employee like myself. Wow. Okay. So this is someone that you're working with that's doing this on the side, and they're making all sorts of money. Okay. So I've got a bazillion questions. You make the transition 18 months later. Prior to that, any real estate experience? I had no real estate experience. The only experience I really had was buying my first home. So you're not a licensed broker. You're not selling stuff on the side. This is cold. Cold. Everything I sell is for sale by owner. Is there any influences at that point in your life that we're doing well in real estate, or was this really just a total leap? It was a total leap. A total leap. Wow. So you hear a lot today about folks that are experiencing what you're describing. They feel trapped in a job that is not rewarding. There's the old adage, if you love what you do, you don't work a day in your life. But it's true. It really is true. And when you don't enjoy what you do, it impacts everything, man. Yeah, it really does impact even when you do enjoy the work. But you don't enjoy the circumstance, if you will. It has a way of trickling into every damn thing in your life. So you go ahead and you take this leap. And now you have a very successful podcast. You've closed almost 6000 deals. You have a very successful company. You're teaching this course. I wanted to go to the beginning. And we'll have, of course, as we always do, folks, all the channels and the website information below. But he's got some great testimonials and some neat videos that you'll find on the website. Can we walk people through in detail? Step one, right through the whole process. I want to start speculating in land. I do want to start. I do it here locally, but I want to now do it outside of New York. Where do we begin? Okay, great question. So, James, you're going to do my case study. So you're in Stanton Island, New York, correct? Correct. I'm going to assume that you own ten acres of raw land in Texas, okay, you own $200. You owe $200 in back taxes on that parcel. So you're essentially advertising two important things to me. Number one, even no emotional attachment to it all. And you're in New York, the properties in Texas. And number two, you're distressed financially in some weird way because we don't pay our property taxes. We don't pay things like that. We don't value them in the same way. As a result, kind of Treasurer keeps sending a notice. And St. James, if you don't pay your property taxes, you can eventually lose that ten acre parcel to a tax lien or tax deed investor. So all I'm going to do is look at comparable sales on your ten acre parcel. I'm going to take the lowest comparable sale. I'm going to divide by four. And that's going to get me what Warren Buffett would call a 300% margin of safety. So I don't want to be like thousand guys and send you an offer saying, hey, I'm interested in buying your land. I'm going to send you an actual offer. So let's just use easy numbers. Let's say the lowest comp is $10,000. So I'm going to send you an offer for $2,500. Now you accept it because for you, $2500 is better than nothing. In reality, three to 5% of people accept my quote unquote top dollar offer. But now that you've accepted it, I've got to go through due diligence of indepth research. I have to confirm you still own the property. Back taxes are only $200. I have to make sure there's been no breaks in the shade of the title. There's no liens or incumbents. I want to know what's compelling about the property. What are the roads like? What's the water depth? What are the restrictions? So I have this huge checklist and my team in the Philippines fills it out for me cost $11. I want to press pause because I have a host of questions and I don't want it to get lost in the process. First of all, for the audience, we're conditioned a bit differently here to hear someone would have ten acres of land in Texas that they may lose because of $200 in back taxes. I have now come to learn how big of a pool that really is. But I can tell you that folks that listen to this podcast locally are thinking, who loses ten acres over $200 in back taxes. Can you address that? First? How big is this pool? How much opportunity is there out there for people that are faced with that situation? Right? So it's the same thing. So let's say that you've got everything in your garage that you don't use right now, and you've got a bill for that of $200 every single year for the last ten years. You keep getting this bill for everything you don't use in your garage, and all of a sudden I've got a window into James principal's garage and I'm making an offer on the golf clubs he doesn't use on some electronics he hasn't used $0.25 per dollar. Right. James, would you accept that offer? Sure. That's the mentality. And is there a big enough pool? Are there enough people out there that are in that situation where you're able to actually do this in some sort of scale, where there's enough people who have that situation? Yeah, absolutely. We do a deal a day now. Wow. It's a massive market. In fact, there are billions of acres of land available in this country, and there's no one doing it. There's no big money doing it. There's no hedge funds, no private equity groups. So it's all these mom and pops, basically, you, me, a million people could be in this niche. We'll all run out of money before we run out of deals flow. And James, let's be honest. Right. Can you think of a more boring niche? You're not going to go on the HGTV or the DIY network. Let's see, flip this land before pictures, raw land. The after pictures, raw land. Okay. Yeah, I love that analogy. So the pool is deep. We're not going to have an issue with deal flow. There's plenty of people out there. The next point before we move on to even prove it even further, because when I started teaching people how to do this, my wife looked at me, she's like, why you would teach anyone what you're doing? You're going to create your own competition. So like a good investment banker, how big is the market? And the market is massive, which is why I teach it. Okay, so the next thing you had referenced was you go on and you find the comps, the lowest comps, and you're taking a quarter of that number. Where are you looking for comps? It's all public information. You can go to the tax assessor's office and get comparable sales. And to get all the county information is all public, and it's all in one website. It's called Naco.org nakedo.org. You can get the Treasurer, planning and zoning, the assessor, the recorder. So every county in the United States is listed on their email addresses, phone numbers. It's a great resource. Okay, naco.org. Okay, so let's pick it back up. We are sourcing these deals. There's ample flow. The pool is nice and deep. We have a place that we can source our comps. What's next? Okay, so we're going to do everything checks out. Due diligence. Now, again, the last thing we want to do is create a job for ourselves. So I'm going to delegate the due diligence to my team in the Philippines, and they're connected to an American title company. And you're doing that through VAS, through virtual assistance. Correct. Okay, so folks, you've heard me talk about this. I have VA's life changing for me. They are absolutely in my experience, at least, has been hard to quantify how amazing the impact has been working with these VA's virtual assistants. So you have folks that are set up and there's a checklist, if you don't mind slowing it down for a couple of minutes. Mark, let's share with the audience. What do you need to look for when your diligence packages being run through? What items are we talking about here for land? The most important thing is I want to know the back taxes because the back taxes are too high. Everything else is irrelevant anyways. So I want to make sure that there's a deal there. So, for example, if the lowest comp is $1200. Right. And the back taxes are $200, I might offer a dollar.

So we got to make sure that the back taxes aren't too high. We're still going to make for me, I want to get a 300% to 1000% ROI. If it's cash, it's going to be 300% minimum, but on terms about 1000%. All right, so a couple of things there. If the back taxes, folks, are significant, at least in relation to that asset, you're basically letting this person know, hey, you're off the hook. Taxes don't go away, folks. They find you and they collect one way or another. So what Mark is saying is, hey, I'll give you a dollar for the land, I'll take over that tax burden. That, of course, has to be paid at closing. And you're free and clear at that point, right? Correct. Okay. And are you closing these transactions predominantly in cash or is there seller financing? Obviously not the deal for a dollar, but what are those deals look like? I'd say 99% of our deals are done to cash. Okay. Yeah. We don't do any debt deals. Okay. I didn't mean to interrupt you there again. I just want to keep everybody on point with where we are. So you now kick it to the diligence team. They're running down items. One of the top items is how much impact taxes. Okay. What else are they looking for? So we want to make sure that there are no breaks in the chain of title. So we have a clean title chain, essentially. And how are they doing that? In the Philippines? They're connected to an American title company and they can get the title report. So they're actually ordering title report for you. Correct. And you're doing that at what point in the transaction? During due diligence. So do you sign like a contract with a due diligence period or are you just gripping it and ripping it? You're in contact with somebody when we send the offer, we have an out in the contract that says this offer is contingent upon due diligence. So you're actually sending a contract, correct?

Right. So for us in New York, I think it's only New York in California, for whatever reason, we have a different process. We have to start with an offer. We're not allowed to write contracts here. You have to use an attorney. So an offer to us is a meaningless piece of paper that you can throw in the garbage. What Mark's talking about is he's actually writing a sales contract, which has got to be powerful. Right. The potential seller receives this in the mail and it's signed by you at this point. And it's a contract. This is ready to go well, it's more an offer with legal. It's not going to be a typical what you'd see is like a real estate contract. It's going to be an offer that has legal language giving us an out based on due diligence. We'll set the number for that land. And how long does your diligence period typically take? Well, we'll take maybe a week to ten days, but it takes us really about a day. Okay, so seven to ten days is typical to be in the offer. Yeah, we want to close very quickly. Okay, go ahead. They're now going down these items. Right. So we want to make sure there's no breaks in the title. There's no liens or encumbrances. For example, an IRS lien. Now, if there's an IRS lien or any kind of lien can always be cured. But we want to know what's going on there, and we might have to renegotiate the offer if there's a lien. I can't remember the last time we actually found a lien on a piece of the land. That being said, we still want to look for it. And what does it cost, roughly, to run a title report? Well, it doesn't cost anything because they're already connected to it. So that VA company is paying to be connected. So I pay $11 for my due diligence. Wow. So you're actually set up with the company as part of the service. Okay. All right, so you're going through diligence and chances are there's not going to be a lien. There seems to be continuity. It seems to be insurable. Now what? Now we want to see the roads in dress and addresses or legal access. I want to know what's compelling about the property. How far from the nearest Walmart, the nearest hospitals? What are the neighbors doing? Are they dumping anything? Are they tires on the land? Is there going to be any kind of issue? Are there zoning restrictions? Have planning and zoning spell out what we can and can't do on that property and just, you know, it can kind of go on from there, depending on what the highest and best use is from the water table to power. So we could literally spend like a half hour just on due diligence. Whose vetting all of these things. So the team is giving me all that information in my checklist and they're giving me a due diligence report. And then. Well, I am not proving it, but my team is now. But when I first started, I did everything. And in your course, if I subscribe, am I getting all of this information? Yeah, of course you can get everything. Okay, so the team is now running this information down for you. You get an email, I assume, in the morning. Okay, Mark. One, two, three, main Street here's title. So access, folks, let me Sidebar for a moment. Being from New York again, we're programmed a bit differently. We assume, of course, there's a road. Of course there's utilities. Not the case, folks. We have a deal that we bought in Pennsylvania, where it was 140 acres. It was at one point part of a much larger farm. And over time, they subdivided pieces off, and there was no road frontage to speak of. And in Pennsylvania, there are these prescription Easternance, where if you don't have access to that road, the people that adjoin you have to technically give you access to get to that road. So that's what Mark's talking about there don't think that every piece is going to have this beautiful paved road and you're going to have access. There are these circumstances that you have to take a close look at. So you're getting your package. Looks like you have road frontage. Title seems to be clear. Are you looking at and maybe I should save this for later, but are you looking at pieces where there's a lot of developments out there, Mark, where utilities were put in, 500 lots were subdivided. We've seen cases even where there's a clubhouse that's built, but nothing was ever built. Are you buying those types of deals also? Are you talking about Treasure Lake, Pennsylvania? Well, that's one of the places, but yeah. So that was like my worst deal, actually. I don't like the POA fees of these subdivisions where it's been over developed. So you've got all these lots and a bunch of nice houses, but there's just too many lots. And then even if you're just a lot owner, you got to pay a water fee, you got to pay a store fee, property association fee. I avoid those. Okay, so no homeowners associations for you, and that also comes up in title, correct? Yeah. We want to make sure that there's no POA fees. Absolutely. All right. So again, folks, having unfortunately made all of these mistakes in my lifetime, some of them more than once, what seems like can be an amazing deal in these types of developments if you don't properly diligence and find out after the fact there's a homeowners Association, I've seen cases where there are thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars in past due homeowners association fees. Right? That's what I'm talking about here. Correct. And then you're responsible to secure that lien. Absolutely. Okay, so we're staying away from homeowners associations. What else are we doing here? So let's kind of move past due diligence here because we can really get into the weeds on it. So we might get a plat map, a GIS map, a satellite map, aerial map. Because really what we're doing when we're doing our due diligence is creating a marketing package for the next buyer. But once everything checks out, if it's $5,000 or less, I'll self close. If it's $5,000 or more, I will take risk. I'll close to a title company, but in your situation, because we're only paying $2,500, I'll take the risk. So now I pay you $2,500 for the property. I've owned the ten acres. I've got a built in best buyer. James, do you know who it is? No, the neighbors. The neighbors. So I'll send out neighbor letters saying, hey, here's your opportunity. Protect your Privacy, protect your views, know your neighbor. So oftentimes, the neighbors will buy it. Now, if they pass, I'll go to my buyers list. My buyers list passes. I'll go to a little website you may have never heard of called Craigslist most traffic website, United States. I'll go to another one I'm pretty sure you've heard of called Meta or Facebook. Buy, Sell Groups, the marketplace. And I'm going to go to Land Land, Motor.com Land and Farm.com Lands America.com Land Hub.com Landfill.com. These are platforms where people buy and sell raw land. But the way that I'm going to sell it is I'm going to make it irresistible. So all I'm going to do is ask for my next buyer to put a $2,500 down payment to own that ten acre processor. And then I'll make another car payment, let's say 339 a month, 9% interest in the next 84 months. So it's a one time sale. I get my money out on the down, or I might go six to ten months out. And then I'm getting three, three, nine a month and 9% interest for the next 84 months. No renters, no rehabs, no renovations, no rodents. And because I'm not dealing with tenants, I'm exempt from DoddFrank RESPA and the Safe Act, all this onerous real estate legislation. So the game that we play is, can we create enough of these land notes where our passive income now exceeds our fixed expenses? And we're working because we want to, not because we have to. Wow. So you're the bank, essentially. And are you doing contract for deed or are you actually closing and recording a mortgage? No, we're doing a land contractor. Exactly. So what happens is if you, let's say, are making your payments to me of three to three night a month, but that next month, you don't make that payment. You've got 30 days to cure your default. So if you don't make that payment within the next 30 days, you lose your down payment, you lose all your monthly payments. And then I sell that property again. So there's no cost of foreclosure. I get a new down payment, I get a new monthly payment. It extends out my ROI. So what is the mechanism by which you take the property back? Well, there's nothing. It's that I still own the underlying asset. So with a deed of trust, they have to go through a foreclosure process because I would have to deed the property to you with an attached lien. So to enforce that lien, I just go to attorney and go through the foreclosure process, which cost thousands of dollars and can take months and months. With a land contract, the underlying asset remains in my company's name. And then there's no cost of foreclosure. They hit serve notice, secure the default. They don't cure the default. They lost the property and I just resell it. Wow. Okay, so what you're calling contract? I call contract for deed. So essentially and correct me, Mark, if I'm off script here, you come to me and you're a neighbor and you want to buy this piece from me. Great, Mark. It's $2,500 down, $399 a month for 84 months. We sign up a document. Essentially, this document prescribes that if you make that down payment and you make 84 consecutive payments by such and such date, at the end of that agreement, title is transferred to you. Correct. So in that course that we provide, we're going to provide you a purchase sale agreement, a land sale contract and promise rate note. And then we have software called LG Pass that actually does the contracts for about one takes about 1 second to do. So what used to take me about 20 minutes of paperwork. Now it takes me a second. Wow. Now you're building one hell of a revenue stream. As you're acting as the bank, you're getting your deposit, which in many instances, I would assume offsets a significant amount of the cost going on the way in. And you're collecting this money every month as a revenue stream. Correct. What percentage Mark of your sales have resulted in defaults where you had to take action? So in this crazy market, it's about 10% because we don't do credit checks. In a normal market, we're going to look about 15%. And in a 2008 to 2010 market, we had a 40% to 50% default rate. And of these defaults, what percentage of them result in somebody pushing back and saying, no, I have rights and they get an attorney and ongoes a lawsuit. Right. How many are then pushing back at that point? I mean, there's a contract, so nobody pushes back. They understand it's all spelled out clearly in the purchase agreement premise, landscale contract. We send the notice via certified mail as stated in the contract to notify them of their default. Wow. They know if they didn't pay and we automate it via ACH with a program called Geekpay. Io. And it's a sudden forget it payment system. So they can log into their account, they have a problem, they can contact us. We're not heartless, but if you just put your head in the sand, don't contact us. Wow. So nobody to date has lawyered up and dragged you out for years in court with stupidity? No. I mean, again, this is not a million dollar land purchase. It wouldn't make any sense for anybody to lawyer up since I've been doing this. The old adage, real estate is not a matter of if you'll be a student. It's a matter of when in my niche. It's very simple. Make your payments. There's not a problem if you don't love the property. And then we got a guarantee. So I have a 90 day additional due diligence guarantee. I'll refund you if you don't love it. I got a 365 exchange guarantee. But if you just don't make your payments, you're out. And what happens if people want to develop the land they wanted to make the purchase? It's a nice annuity, something to have down the road, maybe to retire to. And Aunt Mabel passes away and they've got some money and decide, you know what, Mark? I want to build this land. I want to improve it. But I'm only two years into my five year agreement. Yeah. Unfortunately, you can't get a building permit unless you own the property. So put a fence around it and they want to drop a well, fine. That's my fence and that's my well. So if they default, I keep those improvements. I should have been more clear. Can they accelerate the process? Yeah, there's no penalty for prepayment, but I would assume that that's not typical. 10% of the time, people will pay cash. And you've done 5500 of these. Well, now over $6,000. And are you at a place now, Mark, where you feel you've achieved financial freedom? Well, yeah, I've had it for a long time now.

Yeah. My money problems are solved. My time problems are solved. And that's what I want to help everyone do is get out of what I call solo economic dependency, which means if you're not personally working, you're not making any money. So essentially, if I can help people create this passive income where they get out of some economic dependency and we can eliminate that big bucket of stress in our lives called money, I think that it ripples out and affects every area of your life. And you can move up Maslow's hierarchy of needs into self actualization and do what you really want to do in life and find your true purpose. But too many people, to your point, James, are trading dollars for hours and are not living their best lives because either they saw what their parents did, they didn't know that there was another way to do it. And so I really want to help people become totally free to live their best lives. So essentially, you found a way to build the infrastructure. It sounds like the right way, right where you're not now bogged down in the everyday work that needs to be done here. And you found a way to essentially create rentals without the headaches of court and tenants and movings and damages and the stove doesn't work. Those of us who have residential properties understand all of the headaches that come along. I love watching these tick Tock investors talk about financial freedom and how they never work a day in their life because they have real estate portfolios. It doesn't work that way. It's not that easy. But it sounds like this is a way to eliminate many of those pinch points that have become so problematic, particularly as more and more we're finding, especially around the large cities, the rules are just getting more and more aggressive against the landowner or the landlord, I should say. And it's becoming more and more of a challenge to reason why we should continue to make these investments that's become a real problem. Yeah. No, absolutely.

Really. I mean, I had a podcast called The Best Passive Income Model Podcast. I have guys like Grant Cardone on and walk them through the model and say, Do I have the best passive income model? I mean, I'm open to something that's better. I'm flexible, like a Yogi. I just don't know what is. Well, I have to say that it almost seems too good to be true because I'm well versed in transactional real estate. I've done, you name it, I've been involved in it. And this does seem like a hell of a simpler way to achieve those goals, mitigate the risk and put yourself on a path to real financial freedom. No. Yeah. But you hit the day on the head. It's simple, but it ain't easy. In fact, nothing worth doing is easy, and certainly nothing is totally passive. Sure, you've got to set this up in the beginning, but my whole philosophy is I can always make more money. I can't get more time. So I want to leverage other people's time, other people's money and software so that I can really be totally free. Are there any States, Mark, where that model of the land contract, the contract for deed doesn't work or where it doesn't fly? Well, Texas and Florida. In my program, there is a way, like we had an attorney, so you have to massage the language a little bit more in those States. But other than that, no. So in your course, are you going to walk us through this pathway of finding these people? That the whole kitten caboodle. Correct. And how long is the course? I don't know. We have a digital course, and then there's a group training for those who are people are really busy and kind of like me. Right. So I'm the kind of person that unless I pay for something and have somebody like a personal trainer making me do it, I won't do it. So we have something called flight school where you go on a live class and actually execute real time with your teacher. And can I ask, arrange approximately what is the cost? If I want the full Monty here, I want to come out of this thing. Ready to go? Yeah. So I think about $8900 to $11,900 for the group course, depending on which there's the VIP portion, then there's a normal portion. Okay. And do you take investment from people? Are you placing money as well, or is it strictly your money? No. If you're the credit investor, we'll work with, you super interesting, man. This is a pretty fascinating stuff. You have a phrase on your website that I thought was neat. Wholetailing. Right. In fact, I've got a free course for your listeners to teach them how to double their money 30 days or less. And that way they can get a taste of the business and see if it really resonates with them. So if they go to landgeek. Comquickdeals, I'll teach them a wholesale model, which eliminates picking out the county to eliminate getting the list. It will eliminate pricing the list. It eliminates sending out offers. It'll eliminate due diligence. So if you unlimited in that entire piece of it, now you're just buying it from the wholesaler. So, of course you want to learn enough due diligence to make sure that you're buying it. Right. But then the wholesaler sells it to you and leaves enough meat on the bone so you can flip at retail and make double your money, essentially. So that's why we call it wholesaling. So you've essentially set up a platform where because you took the time to build the infrastructure. You have this all set up, right? It's easy to talk about. Oh, I have VA's do it. It's a whole another universe. There's an ocean between discussing it and putting it into practice. They're doing all of that for you. A wholesaler has taken the deal to that point already. They're selling it to you for a markup over what they get it from Joe from New Mexico for. Yet there's still enough where you can play the game, kind of hack the diligence it took to get there and then still deploy the program.

Has that been popular? Like, what percentage of folks would you say have done that side? I think it's really popular, but I don't look at analytics like that. Super interesting stuff. Super interesting stuff. So I want to go through the course. I want to do this as we're exploring more and more investing in other markets. Before we came on, Mark and I were talking about some holdings in New Mexico I'm going out to see in May. And as we're doing more and more of these deals, I think that this is super good advice. Sound structure. I think that you're certainly going to teach this old dog a bunch of new tricks. And I want to go through the process because we're looking, like I said, at more and more investing out of our home base, if you will. Right. And what I love about our flight school is that we have a skin of the game guarantee. So you know what I mean by skin of the game? Think about who's got skin in the game. Well, when I get on an airplane, the pilot has skin in the game, right. So we're all going to land the same thing. I think with our flight school we do a skin in the game guarantee. So whatever investment you make into the program we guarantee you're going to make that investment back so it's not going to really cost you anything 180 days or less and all you have to do shows that you did the program and it worked. So you're actually guaranteeing that if they deploy the program they're going to get that investment back correct. 180 days or less. Most people do it in 90. Wow. If somebody wanted to put significant capital into this can it be scaled sold quickly? Define quickly inside of let's say let's talk in real terms. If we put real capital into the program inside of two years how many of these do you think we can put under our belt? Well you're going to have to get your team in place. You have to build a machine essentially. Let's give you a year to do that and then the next year your hockey stick up in growth. So yeah, it's two years which sounds about right. And after overhead maybe paying yourself for every 100,000 you invest maybe $15,000 a month in a season.

You asked me to sign on for 15%. I'm on board. I'm on board. Maybe. I don't know if you've taken a look at cap rates out there lately but they're not that good. Yeah, that's $15,000 a month. Yeah, that's insanity. Look Mark, this is I think it's a brilliant platform we are going to sign up. I do want to go through the course. What's the best way for folks to find you? Just the landkeep.com Mark Podolski everybody really appreciate the time and the education and I look forward to working with you, Mark. Thanks James. Same to here as always. Everybody please stay safe.