Achieving Financial Freedom In Order To Serve Others All Over The World


Participant #1:
Are you ready to bring your real estate game to the next level? My name is James Prindamano. I'm the CEO and founder of PreReal. And over the past 25 years, I've closed over a billion dollars in transactional real estate each week, a meeting with outstanding investors, investors, highperforming individuals and visionaries operating in the real estate space. These are the people that are actually out there in the real estate game right now. Getting it done. This podcast aims at bringing anyone's game to the next level. This is the Prereal podcast. Welcome everyone to the show. The Prereal podcast. Today. I have a treat for you folks. We're joined by Michael Barnhart and Susie Saviour. They are the founder and co founder of Adventurous Real Estate Investors. Now, I know we have folks on the show all the time that talk about syndications and raises and investing and passive investing, but you guys have a really unique story. You're clearly very passionate about community and investing with purpose, and we'll take a deep dive into that. But really an amazing history. I have to say thank you for your service right out of the gate. Amazing. And really do appreciate that. The audience typically likes to go back in time if we can a little bit. We have two guests today. So do we want to start with Michael, Susie, who wants to roll first? I can start. Yeah. All right. So, Michael, you've served for many years. From what I understand, combat vet, can we kind of even though, go back to the very beginnings, I find that there's like, common threads in all of us that are entrepreneurs or serial entrepreneurs and investors. Anything you can think of back to your early days, childhood. First of all, where did you grow up? I grew up just outside of Atlanta, Georgia. Okay. So you grew up outside of Atlanta, Georgia. And how does the kid from Atlanta, Georgia, end up in the Air Force Academy and then passive investing from abroad? Yeah, man, it's a good question. I'll try to keep it as brief as possible to kind of get back. I graduated high school and I was planning on going to College, and I was going to College full time and also working full time. And I realized I couldn't make it. I was working at Papa John's delivering pizzas until 06:00 a.m. Because it's a College town, right. But then I have class at 08:00 a.m.. Right. And so Brandon and the candle of both of them just wasn't cutting it for me. And I had to find some other way to kind of get my education. So I ended up doing the Air Force enlisted at the time. And then during that whole time, I did really well at enlisted basic training. And through my first assignment and stuff like that, and my commander was like, hey, you need to check out this thing called the Air Force Academy. And I was like, no idea what that is. I didn't know there was a service Academy for the Air Force. She recommended me go check it out. So I applied and ended up going there and got my Commission and ended up over here eventually. But to kind of backtrack a little bit and think about the entrepreneur side of me, right? When I was a kid, I always remember getting the science books and getting the books on building things and things like that. And I was always tinkering with things like building alarm systems from our room to shock people if they try to come in just like crazy things like that, right? I'm always tinkering, always building things, always seeing how I could push the limits with certain things and just always learning and always wanting to learn more and more and more. Right. I think that's a characteristic or a trait of a serial entrepreneur is like somebody who wants to build something. And then when they build that, they want to continue to build upon that and grow that and then continue to grow that even further. Right. I think that's kind of where it all came from. I'm not sure if it was my mom or my dad who kind of instilled that in me. I think it was just my own curiosity, but, yeah, that's a little bit about me and my entrepreneurship. Before we started the real estate investing business, I also started a brewing brewing consulting business. So basically, it was like, I have a degree in molecular biology, master's degree in molecular biology. And I love craft beer as well. And I was just in the right place at the right time where I thought about, hey, there's a niche in the market, in the craft beer market where a lot of these craft breweries didn't have a lab. And so I was like, I'll be their mobile laboratory. And so I started this business, brew it up, ended up selling it not too long ago. And then now we started some other businesses, real estate investing. But that's enough about me. I'll let you tell her story now. So just before we jump over to you, just a couple of quick follow ups there. So again, clearly serial entrepreneur, right? We love to build things, but we love to deconstruct and rebuild and deconstruct and rebuild and improve on the model, right? It's just in our DNA, I guess, was anybody else in the family that had served before you? My dad was a pilot in the Air Force in the 50s and 60s. Okay. So there was some influence there. And anybody that had significant roots or background in real estate? No, nobody at all, actually. All right, Susie, take it away. So I was like, I don't even know where to start. Originally from Southern California, moved to the Midwest, moved to Iowa. That is, the Midwest, moved to Hawaii, Iowa, Colorado. But I was always like, the girl in elementary school. It's like, okay, whoever had their homework done first got to beanie baby. So come fifth grade, I probably have 400 beanie babies, like, selling the wrapping paper and getting the biggest prize. That was me. But just throughout my life, I guess I never really thought about ever, like, building my own business. I always worked a lot, though. Like, throughout College, I always had two jobs, even getting my MBA. I still had two jobs, even though I was in accounting. I still had another job because I knew working and working and working. And at least, like, making money. Because at that point in my life, I felt like I had an income problem. I was like, okay, I want to make more money. How do I do that? And I didn't know about real estate at the time. So for me, that was just working over and over for one of my undergraduate degrees. It was actually in anthropology. And throughout the whole entire time, I was getting it. And even after so many people were like, Why would you get a degree in anthropology? And for me, it was like, Well, I love people. I want to get a degree, at least something that I like. I also do communication studies. But anthropology made a lot of sense. Like, I want to learn about communities. I want to learn about people. I just want to understand. Like, this Earth is just majority humans at least gotten into why not give it a shot? And so I didn't actually realize how much that would come into play until we started investing in real estate. As of now, even just being military spouse, I am now in real estate full time for a variety of reasons, like, one. With every move, I no longer have to worry about that job change because it's pretty significant. After you get an MBA and you've already been in the finance world, then you move to a new country and you're like, oh, I can't work because I have to wait to get a visa. And my whole life had been working right. That's all I ever did. It was a pretty big blow. Like, who am I? What does this mean? How do I feel? But then I found out who I am as a person is not defined by my job role. It's about everything else that I bring. And, like, I need to remember that. And so when I deconstructed that and then just slowly remembered my love for humans, real estate is how it all meshed together. It was like, Wait, I can bring all of those traits into real estate, even though I know nothing about it. I can bring my love for people into real estate, even though that's not something that's ever talked about. Like, how can we then Michael and I bring our skills together to make this work, even though we don't know anything about it, because I have only ever rented and so I mean, I guess I had that on my side. I was like, okay, well, if I've also rented that's it, I understand, at least from my experience, what it's like to only be a renter and what I would want from the other end. Sure. So again, quite a bit of ground there. But you said a few things that really resonated with me, right. So one of the things was recognizing some caps or challenges in being able to make additional money, right. And something that we do, it seems like the overwhelming majority of us do this and we never recognize it. But by the time we do it's too late, we trade time for money. And when you're trading your time for money, there is an absolute finite cap on what you're able to earn. And you have to start looking outside of that model, which can be very scary, because for most people, that is not only comfortable, it's the only thing that they know. And the idea of not having the ability to rely on a check every month or every week or every two weeks is really scary when people get on. And we watch all these podcasts and people are talking all the time about trading in their nine to five and they're going to go and take on the world. And that's wonderful. And we absolutely recommend that you really give it all you have when it's your last moment. You want to make sure that the cup is empty. But you've got to be measured. And you've got to be pragmatic in the approach, because this isn't easy. What we do is not easy. So you also talked about the study of people, and we talked to new agents all the time about this. You're not selling real estate. Real estate is a byproduct of what we do. You are building and fostering relationships. You're building and fostering trust. Once you've done that, and the human side of you connects with people. The real estate comes after, right? So many people get on and it's sell, sell, sell or buy, buy. And that's very hard to relate to. It's something that as I started to push more and more into social media and get more comfortable with it, I made a terrible mistake after mistake after mistake because I felt, well, I have to show value. I have to show people I know what I'm doing here. So I was making market predictions and doing all sorts of things that to me were really valuable. But if people didn't know me and people weren't connecting with me, it didn't matter. It didn't resonate with anybody. There's a popular show, Billions, where they've got Wendy. Are you familiar with the show? No. Okay. So it's a popular show, I think, on HBO or something. And one of the roles in this big hedge fund is Wendy, who is kind of she analyzes the staff. She reads the staff, and she coaches them and gets them in their right mindset to go and perform at their absolute peak. And I think as silly as it sounds, but that show started to kind of get people to start looking at the human side of this a little bit more and understanding how critical and important it is to really study the the subject is really the people. It's not the deal, and the deals will come thereafter. So I think that's really interesting that you recognize that before you even got into the game. So you guys are on totally separate paths. It sounds like neither of you had any kind of a real estate background. How does this come together and result in adventurous real estate investors and this passionate, passive investing with purpose theme? How does this all come to be? So that's a great question. So like when covid 19, 1st happened, the first lockdown over here in the UK was a little over 100 days, but everyone was sent home. Everything was closed down, and Michael and I were like, okay, well, what are we going to do for what are we going to do? Because we don't know when this is actually going to end. And so we decided that we were going to start a mini book club with each other. And the very first book was The Slight Edge, and just somebody that Michael had worked with in Afghanistan gave it to him. And for some reason, Michael was like, okay, this is the book we should start with. I haven't read it yet, but this is the one. And so it just talks about pretty much like, being 1% better every day and what that compounding effect does. But then in the back of the book, it has a reading list. And so we bought a bunch of books on the back. And one of those books was multiple Streams of Income by Robert Allen. And so Michael would like, read the book. And then I would read it after him. And when he got to the real estate section, he's like, just skip over the first section. We don't need to cover this. Let's just go straight into real estate. And I was like, okay, let's see how this goes. But then when we found out that the world of real estate had gone virtual, we knew that this was our opportunity, right? It was just taking that first leap. And for us, that first leap was actually like one Facebook post. And that Facebook post was like, Are there other people out there, like, investing in the US, but living out of the country and people start saying yes. And it was like, that was the affirmations that we needed, right? We had an initial call with one of our very close friends now, Marcus Long, who introduced us to go to a conference. We went to that conference where Whitney Sewell looked at us in one of the breakout rooms and said, you can start with multifamily. You don't have to go into single family, which propelled us into continuing this journey, because through that then and having more confidence to talk to people and go to networking events, everyone says everyone, I have yet to talk to anyone yet who have not agreed with this, that they wish they would have gotten in real estate sooner. So we knew that there was no reason for us to wait until we moved back to the US. If we had all the resources that we do right now because they're what everybody else has, because nobody else is really meeting in person, then we needed to do it. So we kind of went into, like, the scarcity mindset of if everything went in person tomorrow, would we be satisfied with what we did today? Okay. So you're deciding to take the leap. And it's so funny. You started a book club because we started a book club also during covet in the office, and it's been an absolute amazing. It's my favorite thing that we've done in the office. We've learned so much from each other, and we have so many tools available to us. Just think about 20 years ago, Suzy, if we would have said that you're going to be overseas and you're going to have the ability to start investing in real estate and tour the properties, diligence the properties, line up investors for the properties and do it from overseas, we would have looked at each other like we had three heads because that was so foreign, and we've come so far in such a short period of time in real estate, although I believe we still have a massive way to go, and there's so many disruptors that are available out there. So you take this opportunity and you decide we want to invest. So where was the first investment made? So that first investment was in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Okay. And how large did you go on that first investment? Was it a two family, five family, ten family. It was 88 units, 88 units. All right. So we've got to take a dive into this. We never invested on this scale in real estate before, and you guys come out of the gate with 88 units. You've got to tell me from start to finish. How did you find the property? How did you diligence the property? Do you still own it? Yeah, we do. And then how is it performing today? So let's go from the top. How did you find the opportunity? Yeah. So first being overseas, we knew we needed to have a team that was back in the States, or at least some one boots on the ground partner in a certain area, basically through social media, as you kind of mentioned earlier, right. As you move on to social media, we start posting on social media, and we're interested in real estate investing. And one of my friends from the Air Force Academy, classmate of mine reached out and said, hey, I just moved full time into real estate investing. Let's chat. We chatted. He is based in Oklahoma City. And so we began the discussion and we're like, hey, you know what the markets that we identified during our market survey to kind of see where we wanted to invest based on a bunch of different factors and variables. Oklahoma City and Tulsa are two of the cities. Him being in Oklahoma City was great because Tulsa is just an hour up the road, basically. And so we started looking that kind of narrowed it down to two markets, right? Yeah. And then from there, we started building relationships with brokers because everything went online. We're able to meet with brokers via Zoom at that point because nobody was meeting in person. Right. So started building relationships with brokers via Zoom and then just keeping up with them. And then they started seeing us deals. We would underwrite the deals, get back to them, submit an loi or not submit an loi. And I just want to add to this part, right. Because it goes into creating relationships. So that is what stuck out was that Michael and I responded even when we did not like the deal, and we would say, like, why we did not like the deal, because if we get a deal and we don't respond and we get another deal and we don't respond, why would they keep sending us deals? They won't keep sending you deals, right. That's paying attention to the other side of this, paying attention to the human element, and that there's somebody on the other side who's working hard to try and make a living, who's trying to find the right asset for you. And if you're not responding, chances are you're not going to continue to get pipeline opportunities from them. So again, I applaud you for looking at the other side of it so early in the game. But you had said in the beginning that you diligence some different locations and opportunities. And I think this is really important for the audience as real estate continues to decentralize and people continue to invest outside of where they can touch and feel the asset, which is a great source of discomfort for most investors. Did you use third party sites to do the homework, or were you just jumping around and checking out employment rates and income? And what does that look like for you? Yeah. We were using a much different, basically, Google searching. I don't remember exactly how we initially started everything. I know we wanted to invest in places where it was a lower price per door number one. And there wasn't a lot of competition. But we also wanted that. Our thing was we wanted a substantial amount of cash flow and not just banking on appreciation, because a lot of some Belt States and Texas and things like that if you invest there like, you're investing and then you basically force a value add, and then you're basing everything on appreciation at the end. Right. And you have a little trickle of cash flow between there, like in the Midwest and in Oklahoma and stuff like that, you can get in at a price, for which makes sense for you to have a substantial amount of cash flow. At least 50% of returns come from cash flow. And then you can also get 50% of returns come from appreciation at the same time. And you're not really banking everything on appreciation. So that's kind of what we initially started everything. So what Michael is referring to here, you guys have heard me talk about this in the audience, buying payments, not buying real estate. When you're banking on certain metrics to go through the roof, it's very dangerous. And these markets change, folks. What goes up must come down and forget that in this business. So you also were very glib about, oh, well, we underwrite it. How did you learn how to underwrite? What are you looking at? Was cash on cash a big metric for you? Was cash flow a big metric? How did you decide that this 88 unit building was the right one? Yeah. Great question. So and going back to real quick about what you just mentioned about everything can change and the market can fall out. Right. That's why we chose Oklahoma as one of our markets because we can buy assets that are cash flowing significantly. Right. And if something happens with the market and we can't sell at the end of our five year business plan, then we can hold that asset. And guess what. It's still cash flowing for however long we need to hold it until we need to exit it when it makes the most sense to our investors. And we also get loan products that match our investment thesis. And that means like getting a 1015 20 year loan, even though your business plan is for three to five years. Whatever. So you have plenty of time to exit the property when it makes the most sense for investors. So how are you specing that out and thank you for sharing that's. Another critical piece here is people forget in these cycles that interest rates go up and these things are, I believe, are in an inflationary period, and I believe we're going to see significant changes to the market in the 2024 2025 period. But you're looking at these as five year business plan, but 10, 15, 20 year debt service. Are they fixed products or are they adjusting after a certain point, we aim to get fixed products for sure as much as we folks listen to what they are telling you. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, you're totally fine. Yeah. So this 88 unit, it just worked out like we were like, hey, cool it's in a cash flow. Nice. After we do the slight repositioning, changing out the resident base and things like that.

Participant #1:
This one's a seven year business plan. But we ended up getting a 20 year loan on it. I was just going to add, though, like, even just going one step back on how to underwrite, because I think that's pretty huge. Or at least it was for us. We were going to networking events all of the time, like, we went to 20 conferences. No, not 2010 conferences in 2020. And we were going to, like, ten meetups a week. And with that, we started telling people, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Oklahoma City and Tulsa. Well, because of the consistency, because that's also very huge in real estate. Somebody had said to us, like, I want to introduce you to someone another syndicator who is also in Tulsa. And this particular syndicator goes after much bigger properties than we had imagined taking down for our first time. And he had said, like, everything is on a pause for us right now. But I would like to continue to talk to you and Michael, because always in this also, like, how can we bring value to others? Michael found a way to bring value. And he was like, you know, I think I can keep doing this with you, too. And so he actually was, like, a big reason behind our underwriting, like, we would underwrite, and then we would go over it with him. Is this right? We found a property off of Lutenet and just practicing. Yeah. And just practicing. Does this look right? And he'd be like, Why would change this? Let's look at it. Let's underwrite again and see if it works out. And so finally, with our first acquisition, Harper's Lodge, we got it right. He's like, it was like those affirmations like somebody in the area who knew what was happening in the area could look at our underwriting and say, yes, that's true. Because I find right here in a lot of mentorship programs, like, people will have a mentor, but they invest in two completely different areas. And I get like, there are multiple aspects of, like, a mentor. But if the mentor is supposed to help you get that first deal and they know nothing about your market, I see a big disconnect there. Yeah. So without a doubt, having a mentor and having somebody that you can bounce these things off in market is invaluable. So I'm interested in the unit count. So you landed on 88 units as you were underwriting. Were you accounting for let me set this up better because I have it in my head. And I've got to let the audience know what I'm talking about here. Right. So one of the challenges, folks that you can come up against when you're investing in a new market that is not local for you is not having enough critical mass to support the ancillary. Things like a super, a handyman people that need to take care of the repairs and the things like things happen right in apartments, and things happen in buildings that need to be tended to. So did you land on 88 units purposefully? Were you building in those contingencies thinking about how many units would support someone like that, or was that just happenstance? Yeah, absolutely. We were definitely thinking about that because we wanted a community large enough apartment, community large enough that would support on site manager and on site maintenance. Because Susie and I are overseas, we cannot be there even if Suzie goes back quite often. But we can't be there on a day to day basis, really running out the business plan. We want to make sure that we had full time maintenance, full time manager that was on site that would be able to carry out the business plan that we designed on a day to day basis, at least Monday through Friday, at least. So that was a huge thing for us. We were not going to even consider anything smaller than that. Well, I would say initially we were we're like, we can make this work, right. And then we can just get a property manager and things like that. But then our first deal that we ever underwear, not ever underwrote. But the first deal we ever submitted, Lord, was 126 units, like, over $7 million. And after that, we're like, oh, we don't even want to bother with anything less than 100 units, but 88 is, I would say, smaller because it can barely support maintenance, but it can be tough for the income on that. But it works out for sure. Yeah. We found underwriting these things for so many years that 75 is kind of the bare minimum where it works. And then from 75, you can really depending on the building and how it's built infrastructure and a myriad of other factors, you could probably run that up to 150 to 200 units on that same infrastructure before you have to start adding more staff. Okay. You find this deal, had you done a raise, or did you have commitments or was this your own cash? Let's walk through the financial part of it. So we raised our money, and it was really difficult only because actually, there's just so many reasons, right. So somebody said to us, you needed to start raising money yesterday. We're like, okay, we got to do this then. And we found out right away. And this was before we knew about Harper's Lodge that our friends and family were not going to be the people who were going to invest with us. So it was pretty much starting at ground zero. And I bring this up again with consistency. So with these conferences and with these meetups like, Michael and I would sniff the screen and then find them on LinkedIn and essentially say, like, hey, we didn't get a chance to connect at the meetup conference, but I'd love to learn more about you. And that is how we built our investor list was having all of those calls. I mean, we were having at one point, like, 2025 calls a week trying to build our list so that we could actually raise. So when we went into our first raise, it was successful. We raised the money. We were happy with what we raised. It's just everything before because nobody's really talking about raising. So I am just very thankful for that person who said you needed to start raising money yesterday because all of our deals are 506 B. So you have to have that relationship. So it's amazing. Like you took the old fashioned ground upon approach, and you're focusing on people, right? Paying attention to people is the key to unlock these opportunities. So the 88 unit building, what was the strike price on it? 4.$3.75. And out of that, how much did you end up raising?

Participant #1:
1.7. Yeah. Okay. So folks, here are two investors that do not have a real estate background that had no family trust that they fell into that had no friends and family raised that they snapped their fingers and the money fell out of a tree. The first deal took down a four point, $35 million property and raised $1.6 million from paying attention to people. Good old fashioned outreach and elbow grease. What an amazing story. Guys. Congratulations. That is really tremendous. Well done. Thank you. James. James, I appreciate that. Yeah. In our team, we had another person help us bring the capital as well. But between Michael and I and that other person, we brought majority of the capital, and it was both our first raises. So it was a lot of elbow grease that went into it. Now your investor metrics. I assume they're getting paid dividends. And then is there, like, a liquidation event or a trigger after X amount of years for them to recapture? Yes. So we paid quarterly distributions and then equity share at the end when we dispose of the property and we have, like, an 8% preferred return for very nice. Yeah. Very nice. And then is there any kickers on the liquidation or is it just a straight eight and that's their compensation? So it's 70 30 split is what we do. So 70% going to them and 30% to us. Well, after you knock a few more of these down, right. You'll see, those metrics will start sliding the other way. And before you know, it'll be 70 30 in your favor. So this is really amazing. This was fairly recent, by the way. I mean, this just happened on the last few years. Yeah. So this first closing was February, actually of this year of this year. Yeah. And didn't you guys then subsequently acquire a few other properties for more after that?

Participant #1:
Congratulations. You guys currently have almost 400 units under management. Right. Correct. What an absolutely unbelievable story. So as this is happening, there is a passion for the outdoors, right. You're both outdoor enthusiasts. I am also another common theme that I find in us nutty kind of serial entrepreneurs. So can you talk to the audience about adventurous real estate investors and what that is and what that means and the passive investing with purpose? Absolutely. So when we were thinking about what we wanted our business to be or sound like all of the above, especially with us being so far away. Right. Because even with that, we require more, I don't want to say more intimacy. But immediately people were like, oh, you're in the UK, I don't know about this. So when we were thinking about our business, we're like, okay, we really want it to reflect who we are because I want people to hear adventures, real estate investors and think of Michael and Susie before we got there, it was like, what does that mean? How do we get there? And a lot of what we do is going on an adventure. Right. So we kind of make it very playful day by day. So it's like, okay, are you ready to go on adventure? Michael will be like, what's that? I'm like, we got to go to the grocery store, just trying to make everything more fun. But Michael and I outside of just going to the grocery store. We really do love the outdoors. And so a lot of what we do, we love to cycle. We love to rock climb, we love to hike, we love to snowboard. And so because we also have that passion for adventure outside of walking, it was like, okay, well, let's add that in because that really reflects us. And it reflects what we like to do. And we really love to travel. And that all mixes into adventure as well. And I think the whole point behind it, too, is that adventure means something different for everyone. But we can all come to say, like, we love an adventure, even though it's all different for all of us. And so that's how adventurous real estate was born. I can't say adventurous real estate investors was born. Everybody loves an adventure. Right? I love the enthusiasm and the passion. And in the vein of passion, passive investing with purpose, what does that mean to you? And can you describe that to the audience, please? Absolutely. So when we have thought about real estate investing and we thought about what is really the greatest compliment, and that essentially is like, resident retention. So if we just want to start it there because Michael and I believe that we are meant to serve beyond our four walls. Right. And so how do we do that? And that's where real estate investing came. But with resident retention, it's like, well, if they're our greatest gift and they are really what makes this business happen, why don't we act like that? Why don't we treat them like that? We have to remember that they are people, too. And that if they are the most important, how can we get that to spread? And so what that means within our business is that when we create business plans, we think, like the renter essentially, or we try to because obviously classes and everything are different. But when we were running around our I guess town, city, village, whatever you want to call it over here, something that really stood out at the beginning was that laundromats were either closed or every other one was like, X off. And I was like, that is huge. If I went to the laundromat and I knew that I couldn't do laundry, especially during covet, right, when you have to pretty much leave any tight space, what would that mean to be able to give that to someone else? So we make a point to try to add, like in unit washer and dryers, because this even goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning time. If we can give the residents back more time, whether they noticed it or not, that is still important, because I rather spend my time multitasking when my laundry is going than going to a laundromat and sitting there and waiting for them to be done, because you can't really go and do another one, you know. I mean, even now, like in the military spouses page, I'm in like, if somebody leaves their laundry, or if a lot of people leave their laundry in a washer that affects everybody else behind them. So it's like there's just so much sorry, I'm going to just go all into it with the slight edge also like, 1% better every day. So if we think there are almost 8 billion people on this Earth, and if just a small fraction of us tried to be 1% better every day, whether that was to ourselves or someone else, what could that do? And so if we continue to have that mindset every day, it does something, and whether I smile and open up a door for someone, I don't need to know if that made their day better. But if it did, and they then helped someone else, that's just the whole point. And so even just to go back to the residence and to the brokers and to all our vendors, people really just want to be heard and understood. So if we can take a moment to even just listen because we were all born with two ears and one mouth, I'm like, what could happen. And so I mean, that's why that's a big thing. Like I spent like, almost five weeks in Tulsa and at this particular property just be like, okay, if I'm here just observing, I can figure out how to serve them better so that this can be a better place for everyone. And that's just what I want to do. Our goal is not to necessarily acquire a thousand units. I would rather be able to spend time and 1% help these people's lives. 1% better than to give like a very small, much smaller fraction and go much larger, like we're just about trying to impact the people in any way, even if we will never notice it. If we can focus on that, though, then conversations change. So you'll absolutely notice it. And the micro adjustments or micro actions have a macro impact because they compound. Right. So I love the idea of again, looking at the human side of it, which is something that there's not enough of in our business too often. This is just about numbers and dollars and cents. But when you're taking the time to go and look at the challenges that people are having throughout their everyday life and make these little shifts in your offering, it does have a profound impact, and they will notice. And I believe you pay it forward. That's what this is about, because at the end of the day, we can't bring these buildings with us. So again, I really applaud you guys for applying that human side because I really think that there's not nearly enough of it in what we do. So as you're doing these deals, are you taking note of the micro changes that you think are impactful? Are you thinking about one day, maybe having a brand of the Michael and Susie buildings include these types of things or these types of amenities? Is that kind of part of this? Are you thinking about building a brand of the offerings that are included in your type of housing stock? I haven't really thought of it that far, but I think just being on podcasts like this, we talk about taking care of the residents, treating them like people making an impact, right. And then also be able to provide that to our investors. But being able to provide the opportunity for people to invest and to increase their passive income streams. But also all the while doing so is they're making an impact while doing it, being able to do that. And then I don't know where you're going to add anything to that. No, I can go off of what Michael was saying because that would be really awesome. Actually, to say like this is what would come into this area. I think our biggest thing, though, is to just help other syndicators who are already in the face will start to do it. And I think that's big too, because I see the little changes, whether that's even with our property manager specifically or our maintenance guy, because they're all part of this equation too. But it would be nice if other people started thinking about it. So it's more just talking about it. But you know how you'll get the other people to do it as you do this in a market specific, you will pick up momentum. People will talk about wanting to be a part of the buildings that you guys own and the offerings that you guys have. This will spread and people will talk about it on social media. We work with Iron State developers, David Barry up here in New York. They built a brand Erby. And the reason I was asking is, Erby took off. They did things different, and they started to make offerings that others were not. And by talking about it and building to that brand, especially if you have a concentration in one market. What's going to happen is other investors are going, why are the better tenants going to Michael and Susie's building? How come these guys are at 98% occupancy and we're at 82% occupancy? And then people will start to pay attention and go. Michael and Susie are putting virtual doorman in their buildings. Michael and Susie are putting washer and dryer connections in their buildings, and you will start to raise the bar. And people are going to go, well, we want to be at 98% occupancy too, right. And they'll start to make offerings and we've seen this happen. That's why I brought it up. And I think it's awesome. Guys, I really think this is amazing stuff. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. You gave us a new bar too. So thank you for that. I'm sure you guys found the same thing as you got into the space. Everybody wants to help, right. Especially in this podcast world. I had never done anything like this before. It was completely new to me, and it was intimidating. And as I started to do more and more episodes and talk to more and more people, I could not believe how gracious everybody was and how much people out there wanted to help. It really has been a great experience for us. Yeah, I like that because everybody's in that abundance mindset like, there's enough to go around for everyone. So why don't Michael and I say this a lot, but we'd rather be like a barrel full of monkeys and a bucket full of crabs because a barrel full of monkeys are helping each other up and pulling the other one up. But like, a bucket full of crabs is just pulling everyone down. Yeah. I love it. So how do people find you? Thanks for asking. And I think the best way to find us. Give two ways for a second. But if you want to learn more about passive investing with Purpose and learn about how to achieve the greatest ROI, which we call Return on Impact, then please go to Adventurousrei. Comimpact. There you can find a guide. You can read more about returning impact and passive investing purpose. Additionally, you can go to Adventurousrii. Cominfo, and there you can find it's a landing page with all of our links there you can find how to connect with Susie and I on LinkedIn. You can find our YouTube channel. It talks about passive investment with purpose and other asset management and things like that. And you can find our podcast, The Adventures of Real Estate Investor, where we talk with real estate investors and how they're leveraging real estate in order to make an impact in their communities and their lives as well. Thank you. Absolutely. Go check out the booklet, folks. It's a nice, short read and it's got a lot of great information in there. Michael, Susie, thank you so much for taking the time out today. And absolutely best of luck in everything that you're working on. Thank you. I appreciate that it's been such a pleasure to be on your show. Thank you. The pleasure was all mine. I love the enthusiasm. I think this is you guys are a model for what can be done and how it should be done. So best of luck. And everybody out there, as always. Please stay safe.