Podcast Episode 55 Transcript

Episode 55: The Waz Effect: How To Leave Your 9-5 and Become A Real Estate Investor

Participant #1:
As I was learning more and more about what you should do. I was doing all the right things. I just didn't know why last five deals I've done, I would buy them, quote, unquote cash or whatever it is. Even if I put only, like, 200 grand down to buy this apartment building, I just bought it. But I don't have 200 grand laying around, but I had them on loans or my key losses. So I pulled all my money together, used it. Then once you bumped the rent and I refined out, I pulled 100% of that out. Plus, like, 40 or 50 grand on top six. So I did that the last five deals I did for the last three or four single families in my last apartment complex. So I'm like, how did I fail like this? And it's because I had $0 in all of these deals, and I'm really good at operating. And like I said, I want to stay in my Lane and keep doing what I'm doing. I don't want to lose focus and

Participant #1:
welcome everyone to the Prendamano Real Estate "PreReal" podcast. We're joined today by Kimberly Marie, who has an amazing story. And in this world today where a lot of people are kind of reevaluating and trading their day job for the pursuit of the entrepreneurial spirit, if you will. This speaks directly to it. Kimberly, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. Well, we're excited to talk about the journey that you've been on. I think it's going to speak directly to the audience and hopefully inspire some folks to get out there and take some chances. So Kimberly worked full time as a physical therapist. We just learned before we got on the air. She has now officially hung that hat up and is now pursuing this in a full time basis, which Congratulations. That's absolutely amazing. Thank you. I think it'd be a cool story for the audience to get a little context if we can kind of take it back and just explain. I think you were born and raised in Chicago, right? I was, yes. Northwest burst of Chicago. And you ended up focusing your career now you're in the downtown Indianapolis market, and you've got, like, kind of a crazy wide birth and remind me a lot of what we've done here. You're involved in a lot of different things as you grew up. Was there a passion for real estate? Was there any influences that brought you to the world of real estate, or did this happen organically? Yeah. So I did have my uncle on my mom's side, and then my grandma on my mom's side, who was in real estate, but I never thought I would get into it by any means. I got into it later in life, after I bought my first primary residence, downtown Indie. It was after I graduated. I thought it was the adult thing to do when you're 24 years old and don't know what your next step is going to be. It's just to buy a primary residence. So I was just in the right place at the right time. I've always had an entrepreneurial mind, so I just kind of started flipping homes in the neighborhood that I purchased in. It just kind of like happened one thing after another. I originally decided to go back to school to get my doctorate degree. And at that time, when I had already graduated the first time from grad school, I had paid off all my debts. I was thinking to myself at age 24, how am I going to go through another round of grad school? It was going to cost me about another 100 grand. So that's why I decided to start flipping homes. And then from there, I just kept doing goals audits for myself as the years went on. And now I'm to the point where I want to be really passive. I want to stick to what I like to do, what I know the best. And that's multifamily commercial, new stick. Hopefully once prices of lumber and material comes down for multifamily. But that's kind of where I'm at right now. It's something a little bit more passive. So that's, like a remarkable transformation. So I'd be remiss if I didn't spend a little bit more time kind of digging into that, right? I mean, for you, too, without really any background in it, make that first leap into what for most people, is super scary, right? Getting into the real estate game on any level is an intimidating thing. So was there any trigger that did you literally just, like, wake up one day. I know you talked about you were going for walks through the neighborhood, and you saw some opportunities. I mean, was it that organic? There was nothing that triggered and said, okay, I'm going to not a friend who did a deal that kind of coached you along. Or just, no, the thing is, like I said, I've always had an entrepreneurial brain. So my first business was a fitness business. I was a trainer. I would do diet plans for people as I was in physical therapy school. So I've always kind of had the hustle. I never really was meant to be a W two employee, and I knew that I just never knew what Avenue it was going to be to get me to financial freedom. So when I decided to get into real estate, I didn't really have someone who's done a deal before. I just really understood the neighborhood that I was in. So I felt extremely confident, literally dumping every dime of mine that I had into this flip because I would walk the neighborhood with my dog. I would go for runs. I'm a really social person. So I'd wave to everyone, talk to everybody. And I learned, like, who was building what in what homes, what streets? Who is moving out, who is moving in? Because I was a consumer. First, I bought my primary residence in this neighborhood, and I found this house that I loved, and I broke my apartment lease like, six months earlier. I didn't think I was going to move that fast. So when I did, I was like, Well, I kind of thought in my brain that I was going to be shopping for a house for longer. So I just kept shopping. But just to see who my neighborhood was. So I would look at everything on the MLS on the market in my neighborhood. And I would go run by and look and say, hey, if I didn't buy my house, what would I have bought instead? And it just kind of turned into, oh, wow. People are really actively flipping homes here, and people are making a lot of money because I would see, let's just say, a $50,000 house burnt down, really gross looking house, go on the MLS and come off sold. And then I would see workers there for another six months. And then I would walk it when it was done. And I was like, wow, okay. There's, like, a 200 grand margin here. There's a lot of money to be made. So it was truly just like, I just kind of fell into it. I had no background whatsoever. That's wild. And that only comes with an extraordinary level of confidence. So growing up, I wonder, was it parents or friends or family? Was there any really strong influences that kind of instilled? You've got this remarkable level of confidence, right? Let's face it, you've done a wide gamut of things, and you're successful right down the line. But that's not normal, honestly, for everyday folks to get that level of confidence, there had to be certain things that were ingrained in you or that you've built upon right over your life. Are there any specific influences you can kind of point to and be like, yeah, they've always supported me. They've always been there to kind of pick you up and move you forward. Yeah. I don't know that I've ever been asked that, but thank you, by the way, for the kind words. But I think the influences in my life have been just always having, like, a really strong mother and grandma and father, too. But my dad isn't so entrepreneurial minded. So from the beginning, my mom is like, my best friend. So I would just tell her, oh, I'm walking through this house today. She's like, okay. And so I was just kind of talk to her, like a friend. And then when I decided to do it, I was like, Mom, I'm going to go all in on this. And she's like, okay, cool. And she ended up being my first investor on my first flip, but not because I asked her, but because I almost got cold feet, and I was like, oh, Mom, I'm just going to sell this house. It's too much. And she's like, oh, no, I'm your first investor. You are not backing out. And so I was raised with a lot of discipline in my household. My mom was born in Japan. So the non American discipline, Asian parenting, I think, also had an impact in my upbringing. So if you commit to something, you make 100% sure that you can follow through on that and you educate yourself and you do what you say you're going to do. You keep your promises. So maybe that has something to do with it subconsciously, I don't know. But I think without a doubt, that makes a lot of sense, right? That kind of upbringing and that kind of structure and support and kind of push seems like it would certainly pattern all of us kind of serial entrepreneurs. There's some common thread I've found where you're into this podcast. Now we're up at almost 60 guests, and there are just certain things that all of us share somewhere somehow in our upbringing. So thank you for sharing that. And I think that makes a lot of sense. So here you are. You're walking the neighborhood, running the neighborhood, you're checking things out. And there's something to be said about that, right? I think in the digital age, we kind of take these tools, I think, and abuse them a little bit. We all kind of fall back behind our desks. And we were just talking about this in the office yesterday, we had a team meeting on a leasing project, and we were like, you know what we miss? Kind of knocking on doors and getting out there and just walking in unannounced, introducing yourself and trying to build a rapport with people you're out there doing that, you're touching and feeling it. You're meeting the people you're seeing these properties go from dilapidated. In some cases, I know you had talked about burnouts to finish products, big profit margins. All right. So we're going to go do our first deal. A lot goes into that, right. Budgets, financing, construction. Where do you start? Right. If you're talking to the audience member now who's in that position and they want to take the leap, where did you start? Yeah. So again, I didn't have a lot of planning going into it because I didn't know very much. So knowing what I know now, I don't know that I would have gone the same path. But I'm glad I did, because I just kind of sink or swim. You're going to grow wings on the way down. So I just was really confident in my neighborhood. So I knew what the margins could be because I've seen so much of it around when I did my first deal. So really, the hardest part was finding a contractor who would take on such a large job because my first one was a burnout, completely burnt down. I dug 60 inches under the ground, jacked the house up, replaced the foundation, took the second story completely off, raised the roof 10ft. So it was a pretty expensive job, and a lot of people had run away from it. And at the time, it was in a neighborhood that people wouldn't cross over. But there was no reason for it. And I saw that because I was the one walking around. But other people were behind their computers looking at what everyone was talking about. Oh, don't go past State Street, and I was one block past State. And to me, there was no Creek, there was no highway, there was no major landmark that was actually dividing State Street. It was just like, oh, no one goes over there because it's ghetto or whatever they want to say. But I knew that it was only a matter of time. So I had the confidence because I just saw what was going on. So after understanding the neighborhood and then just talking to different contractors, after a while, I realized what this home needed. So the first thing I did was replace the foundation. So then after that, then I was really looking for, okay, who can really take on this whole thing? So once I found that guy, it was pretty simple for me. I knew what my budget was to begin with. And at that time, like I said, my mom kind of went all in on me as well. So between her and I cashed out all my stocks and mutual funds and all that type of stuff and liquidated everything, put a HELOC on my house. And between the both of us doing those things, we were able to come up with the cash to do the first one, and we did really well. And so after that, it was really easy to scale that up. That's amazing. Most people start with what I call kind of a crash thing, like spit and Polish renovations where they're going in. They're touching some things up. Maybe they're putting in a new kitchen, but you're jacking up houses, new foundations that's wild. Did you incorporate to do this? Did you set up, like, a GC entity or you are just ripping it and ripping it. Yeah, pretty much grip it and rip it. I set up an LLC that was me and my mom, but I wasn't actually acting as the GC. Like when I found the guy who did the work for me, he was the GC. So he had pulling permits and dealing with variances in the city and all that type of stuff he took care of. That not me. So you go in, you knock it out of the park, you're taking the time and kudos to you for recognizing before you really had a solid background in real estate that absent that geographical boundary, because sometimes geographical boundaries do play a big role. As crazy as it is. Train tracks, expressways, creeks, as you had mentioned, sometimes they do play a really big role in the concept. But other times, it's just like you said, people behind a computer not understanding the flavor of the market. So you identify these things, you start moving forward, you knock the first one out of the park, you've got money in the bank, and now you start getting a taste for the fix and flip game. Right. So now you're out. And from what I understand, you actually went and saw several properties that were available on the same block. And you took down most of the block. I did. So my very first flip that I did, that I sold that I did really well on. It was like I said, one street over the do not cross line that didn't exist. So when people would cross, I realized that people wouldn't cross because there was one or two houses that was making everybody look bad over there. That was causing all the problems and all the rip wraps. So what did I do? And it just so happened that it was surrounding this house. So the next door neighbors were the problems. And so we literally knocked on the door or had to Hunt them down between my broker and I to buy those. And so I kind of cherry picked the ones I wanted to buy. But then once they saw me over there all the time, the neighbors, they thought some big West Coast investor bought the house, and then they see me pull up and they're like, oh, it's her. And then I was over there a lot when I was still looking for a contractor. The foundation was done. But I was doing the demo myself because I couldn't find someone. I was like, Well, I don't want to do nothing. I got the city on my butt about liens in order to repair. So I was like, okay, well, I need to show them that work is being done. So I was in there with a crowbar. I have no tools, nothing. So they're like, oh, it's her. So they kind of respected me for just going in there. So they saw me all the time. And a lot of the neighbors then were like, okay, hey, I'm looking to move. Do you want to buy my son's house? Do you want to buy my house? And so every single one of them was off the market, either direct to the person or one guy. I had to Hunt him down because his house was condemned by the health Department and found him in a motel on the west side of Indianapolis. But it was a little more difficult, but every other one, it was just from the neighbors. So once I kind of knocked those out and bought them all, I was able to say to the future buyer of my houses that I was redoing completely new. Hey, these look bad now, but this is the same owner, same developer. Here are the renderings here are the drawings. These are going to be your neighbors. And I was able to sell them on the dream. And so now all of those houses are done, and everyone's, like, sweet, hey, she did exactly what she said she was going to do. And now everyone is over on this side of the side of the line. The insights for you are pretty remarkable. Kimberly, I have to tell you, we do a lot of that type of work here in Staten Island, which is a suburb of a borough of New York City, and even some of the biggest and best hedge funds. You have to kind of walk them down a painful path to get them to understand that if you're going to make an investment, you do have to take down a larger geographical area. You do have to sell the dream, producing the renderings and getting people to understand what your vision is. Again, for you to have those instincts really are quite remarkable. So now you're involved in a bunch of different fix and flips at this point. Are you kind of refining the economic side? Are you starting to get into, like, targeted returns, or are you still kind of just going through it knowing that you're going to hit certain numbers at the end of the day because you knew the market so intimately, it was kind of, yeah, the second one just kind of, hey, I know if I do this, this is what I'm going to make. But also after my first couple, my goals had changed. It was a lot of work being on site every single day, making sure your contractors are doing what they said they're going to do, making sure the work is up to the standard that I wanted. So I actually started to pivot towards buy and hold single family at that time. So instead of me buying a house that's torn down or burnt down, making the neighborhood worse and needing to be rehabbed, I was just buying a house that, hey, you know what? I can just paint the walls and replace the floor, put a tenant in here, and they're going to be happy. So my primary residence, where that was was right in the center of town. And so these other ones were about seven blocks out. So I bought my very first rental on that same street that I lived on. So I knew that I was going to be renting to someone just like me. So I started just buying different rentals and just kind of scaling that up. And then I was able to do the whole birth thing. I would refinance, fix it up, pull my money out, and then I was funding my flips from there. But once I kind of got knowing what the flip was, I was like, this isn't really what I want to do. I want something more passive. So that's when I just kind of focus on okay. I'm only going to buy single families and duplexes and rent them out and make them nice. And then from there, that's when I was like, Why am I doing this much work for just a single family home? Why don't I just buy an apartment complex? And so that's gotten me to where I was now I closed my first apartment complex in the beginning of 2019, and since then I've only done multifamily like that. You're again making a jump that some never make. And you made it pretty quickly, recognizing that the fix and flip game is amazing. And it does give you seed money to kind of take that next step up in class. Right? So you now start transitioning to the berm method buy Renovate Rent refinance. I forgot all of the acronyms, but the idea is you're buying it and you're getting it up to rentable grade, if you will, putting a tenant in refinancing it, cashing out your money plus some and you're keeping the spread while you're building equity between your debt service and what the rental is. So you then graduated to larger complexes again, remarkably fast. And are you now at a point where you're buying, like stabilized stuff at like ten caps, or are you still going in finding that building that needs a lot of work that you're buying at a discount and you're still going in and fixing them up and then tenanting the asset? What's the model for you now? Well, present day it constantly changes. So the very first property I bought already stabilized. I found it off the market again, bought it out of ten cap and bumped the rents refinanced 18 months later, pulled all my money out plus some. And really, I wanted to focus on multifamily. That was a 23 unit property I did that with and I didn't buy anything for the last two years until actually March of this year where I bought my second multi family, which was a 27 unit. That one was completely different. That one can fall over at any moment. I bought at a discount for where it is. It's right in the center of Indianapolis. It's called NAFTA, which is like the place to live, the place to go, eat, hang out, do whatever it's so close to there. But it's a C minus building. It's really, really old. It's got galvanized pipes, the brick, the parapet wall could fall over at any moment. It looks like so that one is going to be a challenge. I eventually do plan to completely renovate it, put about $2 million into this thing and make it gorgeous, brand new. But for right now and this is new right now, I'm just going to bump the rent because people are only paying 380 to 440 a month. And I just leased one a couple of weeks ago at 750 to just show how off it was. Even for the condition of the building, it was still half what it should be. So if I bump all of those, even 2527 to 650 to 750, I have a ton of equity. I can then go to the bank and say, hey, use my equity as my down payment, give me a $2 million loan, and they will do that. That right now is my plan. So I just need to make sure that whatever bandaid I need to put on this thing for the next year or two until I can kind of do that whole transition is what my plan is right now. So are you using brokers to source all these off market deals, or are you sending letters out? Are you making phone calls, joining networking groups? I mean, how are you nailing all these off market deals? I have an extremely good relationship with my broker, Corey. His name is Corey Gardner Gardner Property Group. He has been with me literally since the beginning, in 2016 with my single families. And as I've grown, he has also grown and our goals are completely aligned. And he's a pro. So I don't really like to call people. I don't really like to Hunt for the deal. I do, but I don't like doing it on the computer. I like going out and finding it and cherry picking saying, I like that building, and that's the one I'm going to go for and find them that way. But as a broker, obviously, he's got on the phone. He has his systems in place. And so rather than me trying to wear all the hats, I'm totally fine with paying him well, treating him really have him be my team member and say, hey, I am not going to let this guy go so he can do the call and he can bring me the deal. I don't care what he makes off of my deal. I worry about what I make. And so if I can treat him well and he can really, truly be like the professional in doing that. And he's great at it, which he is perfect. He can keep it. I don't need to call people. I don't need to do that. So every single one of them has been from my broker. So I'm extremely lucky. No, you're not lucky. You're smart. Right? Well, seriously, we have a brokerage here. We've been around since 1989. We do a lot of the specialized stuff. We find the off market deals. We've done everything from the 600 square foot deli up to leases with Nike and $60 million deals with Goldman Sachs. Wow. People don't get that. You get what you pay for and 100%, not all brokers are created the same. So when you have a broker in a super hot market where my dog can sell houses, that's one thing. But when you're doing what you're doing and you're trying to source deals and you're looking for things off market and you're looking to live in between that kind of spread having the right broker is so important. Right? Do what you do best and pay for the rest. And there are exactly that is lost, though, Kim on so many people, they don't understand that side of it. And everybody thinks that sourcing those deals and doing that other side of it is easy. And it's not. So again, kudos for you, having the instincts and understanding a rising tide should lift all ships. Right. And if you're earning, others should earn, because that just continues. We have clients that I've been doing this full time for 25 years. Many of the clients I started with are still clients now they've taken care of me. I've taken care of them. We've made lots of money together, and that's okay, right. That's the way it should be. Exactly. You're growing and scaling like, wicked fast. Are you raising additional funds? Is there more equity contributions or is this all self generated and keeping it in the family? How are you bridging the gap so far? I have not syndicated even once, but like I said, my largest building right now is 27 units, so it's not that big. I would like to learn how to syndicate, but I just don't really have a passion for that. I don't know. Like, I'm a really big, like, energy person and passion person. Like, if I don't love what I'm doing, I feel like you really have to love it in order to be good at it in order to always want to do it. I mean, I'm working sometimes till ten. 3011 at night, not because I have to, because I want to. I'm, like, so jazzed up about what I'm doing so far, I've been able to do it. My mom has had my back since day one. I mean, when I say I cleared my bank account, she cleared hers. My parents are very happily married, but my mom was like, hey, husband, sign on the dotted line, and my dad's, like, what is this? She's like, oh, don't worry about it. She cash out, refinanced her own house, and she went all in on me. My dad knows now, but he would have lost his mind back in the day. So she really helped me build because she got a lot of capital. 150 grand is a lot. You could do a lot with that for me. As I was learning more and more about what you should do, I was doing all the right things. I just didn't know why at the time. So probably the last five deals I've done. I was just talking about this with a friend yesterday. Last five deals I've done, I would buy them, quote, unquote cash or whatever it is. Even if I put only 200 grand down to buy this apartment building I just bought. I don't have 200 grand laying around, but I had them on loans or my heat locks. And so I pulled all my money together, used it and then I did this for my first apartment complex, too. Then once you bumped the rent and I refied out, I pulled 100% of that out. Plus, like, 40 or 50 grand on top of it. So I did that the last five deals I did for the last three or four single families in my last apartment complex. So I'm like, how did I scale like this? And it's because I have $0 in all of these deals. And I'm really good at operating. And like I said, I want to stay in my Lane and keep doing what I'm doing. I don't want to lose focus and try to start cold calling people or try to find more leads. I would much rather leave that to the professional that I have on my side. My broker like, hey, I will treat you really well. You keep doing this for me. And I'm good at operating. And so that's kind of what I've been doing so far is just somehow hitting the nail on the head with operations and refinances so far. But now that I understand more about it for the last couple of years, I've had a really good handle on it. It's a lot more structured, but I'm not opposed to syndicating. I look at larger deals all the time. I just don't think that the returns are there based on what I've bought before. So, I mean, we'll see I'm always learning. So I want to move into the bigger picture stuff in a minute. But before I do, if you could talk to your younger self, I'm sure there were some rough patches. Right? What advice would you give to Kimberly when you're jumping into that first deal where you've got roof raises and foundations, all these different things in the same way? What would you say to someone in the audience that getting ready to start? If you could boil it down to a few sentences, what would your advice be? My advice would be to focus and to not get too excited, because when I now and looking at new people who are coming to me and saying, oh, whatever. So I might help them find a deal. I might help them get into a deal, introduce them to my broker, and they do really well, then they're like, oh, my gosh. I just made all this money. I'm doing so well. I want a flip or I want a wholesaler. I'm like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Hold on. What is your goals? What do you want to do? Don't all of a sudden get super trigger happy and want to go do everything. And I feel like I didn't go through that exact thing. But I had a couple of contractor issues in my past, and so one of the guys I was plus minus about hiring that I should not have hired. But I got so excited because in front of me, he got a phone call from someone that I knew. So I put down all my walls like, oh, you work with them. They're great. Oh, my gosh. Great. Take this burned down, completely condemned home and rebuild it for me. I mean, he's not a bad guy, but he just did offer way more than he can chew. He had great ambitions, but he could not do the job. And I did not screen him properly because I got too excited. I did really well in my first one. Oh, my God. Great. I'll give this to you. So it's like, hey, stay focused. What are your goals go through? What? You know, don't get too excited. That's what I would say. That is amazing. So goals was the next thing on my list for me. I lost ten to 15 years like this because I was so busy being busy that I didn't focus on the bigger picture stuff and where I really wanted to be. Quite honestly, you know, I woke up 1015 years later and don't get me wrong. We've had a lot of success here. We've been blessed. But it's not what I originally had kind of drawn up in my head. It wasn't what my real passion was. And it wasn't what my initial vision was. And I actually had to step back and ended up getting a business coach and then a mindset coach to get myself really focused. Could you speak a little bit about the importance of goals and being intentional? Oh, yeah, 100%. Good for you for recognizing and doing that, by the way, because that is so important, because I see that a lot for people. They just keep so busy one thing right after the other, and it's like, and especially a new people. They meet all these people in real estate, whether they're wholesaling flipping, buy and hold. And there's so many different avenues that you can do. And as a new person, I noticed that everyone wants to say yes to everything without even thinking about what they want. Why do you want to get into real estate? I want to make money. Okay, great. What kind of money do you want? Passive income? Do you want a large lump sum? So it's really important to get down to the root of why? Because once you get there like, oh, I want a million dollars. Hey, great. You have a million dollars in your bank account. Now imagine that. Now what what is it? What is your why? And I think when I was 16 years old, I was in a really unique situation where I was around a lot of very well off and powerful people. And I grew up in a very middle class family. And when you're 16 and you see something like that and it was 2008, and I was looking at everything. And in my brain, my whole world is crumbling down. My parents lost their job. Everything is in shambles, really. And I was around a bunch of people that it wasn't even happening in their world. And I was like, wow, so that just gave me a lot of perspective as to what is important. Like, who do I want to be? What do I want to provide? What do I want to accomplish? So what are my goals in my life and what is going to get me there? And I knew that a W two job wasn't going to do that. And I didn't know what the business was going to be, but I knew that I could build something that would make me indestructible. Like, these people were indestructible. They built out something so strong and powerful that even 2008 didn't take them down. All those people were the ones who were buying everything up at that time. And I was like, oh, my gosh, how did you build this? Who are you? What have you learned? What do you think? And so those are all the questions I was asking myself when I was a teenager. So I think that's really important for people. Now, if you're stuck in your nine to five or even if you are doing your own business, what do you want your day to day to look like, imagining, like, okay, you want to have your goals for the next week, month and year. But what is your big picture? Like, what is your life? What is your business? And I think those are really things that people don't think about a lot. So it's really important, no doubt about it. People get stuck in the comfort zone, right? And rationalize and come up with excuses. It would have been very easy for you as a 16 year old young lady to look at those influences and be like, oh, who did they screw to get there? And how did they inherit that money? And you can't build that in one generation anymore? The good old days are over. I hear that crap constantly. Things are so expensive now. There's no way to scale like, you used to be able to scale that's bullshit. We have all of the tools we could ever, ever dream of having in this business. And if you surround yourself with people that are higher in the economic scale, at least in life, it gives you the ability to look up and go, wow, how are they doing it right. There's so much to learn from that does create discomfort. People like to be at least on par with people in their circle. And they like to feel that they're kind of one of the I call them the big asses in the group. But big fish, small pond doesn't work if you really want to take the next step. So, again, your level of self awareness is remarkable. And you've been blessed with some amazing gifts that takes people a lot of time. I know it took me a lot of time to really refine and understand that I was better than this. I wanted to do more. I could do more. And I even found that my goals weren't my goals. These were goals that I kind of picked up along the way. And there were other people's goals, right? You end up doing things because of other influences and other things that happen in your life. And even though you're taking the time at the end of the year to write them out and you're making a plan, how you're going to get there when you get there, you kind of go, no, not for me. I'm not doing what I really love. And when you are doing what you love, God doesn't make all the difference in the world. It really does help bring you to a completely different level. So, again, you didn't do this with any coaching or anything like that, right? No. I've really just been surrounded by amazing people all the way through. As I said, my mom was there from the beginning, and then I realized that some of the old friends I was around or relationships that I had. I'm a big energy person. Like I said, so if I'm around someone who's tired, grouchy, complaining, it really affects me. I'm like, oh, my God, I can't be around that. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to talk about it. So my friend group now, it's like I was talking to someone over the weekend that was talking to me about real estate. And it was one of my family members who lives in Chicago who invested in India and did really well. And he's like, wow, I love talking to you. None of my friends do this. So it's, like, so great to have a conversation. And I was over here like, Dang, all of my friends do this. I don't have a friend that doesn't. And so my friend group is incredibly amazing. And my mom is incredibly supportive. And so is my dad now that he sees and understands and my sister. So I'm just really lucky that I'm always around positivity and things that are going to bring me up. And I have amazing teammates, like I said, my broker and everything, my property manager now, and we're all on the same page. We all have the same goals, and we're all working towards the same thing. And like you said, everyone rises together, and it's been really awesome. So I'm very grateful for that. So there's the expression misery loves company. And it does, right? I don't know if you've ever read the book Secrets of the Millionaire Mine. No. But I have that book. I should read it. You could have wrote it quite honestly. I mean, the way that you are just programmed, your financial blueprint and your thermostat has been set at a different level from a very young age. And there's a chapter in the book that for me, it was very powerful that spoke about mindset and people's behaviors, and it challenges you in one of the exercises. It says, Start with yourself, go one week and don't complain no matter what, no matter what's happened, no matter what's going on. And it is hard to do, right? Like, it is really hard to not have one complaint come out of your mouth for a week. And then it says, after you've done that, then start jotting down people around you and how many complaints you're hearing from the people around you not necessarily complaints about you, but complaints in their lives and start to measure the negativity. I actually took the time, and I started writing down who's complaining, who's feeding in, who's bitching and moaning about everything that happens. It was like, wow, it's such a powerful thing for me because you don't recognize it. It just becomes kind of part of the day that you feed into this stuff, even if you're trying to be intentional and not doing it. There's so much negativity around now that it's very easy to fall into that mindset. And when you do it does kind of take the air out of the room, right? It brings you down. It kind of brings everybody down. And it's easy to get knocked off your Mark. So for me, the book was really impactful. And again, it's amazing that you have just kind of in your DNA, so many of these tools. And I applaud you for the way that you've tapped into those tools. And you're doing amazing things. I wanted to talk a little bit if I could about geographical area. So through the digital toolbox that we have now we're able to glean insights into markets that normally we wouldn't have access to. Are you keeping your investment hub within a certain radius around where you live? Are you looking at deals outside of that or are you keeping at home? I'm looking at deals outside of that. So I live in Indianapolis. I am looking heavily in Austin, Texas. I like the Tampa market, Fort Lauderdale, Las Vegas, even though I get slack for that. I love Vegas, but the thing is that I'm learning I understand Indianapolis so well, like, I have a very obsessive personality about something. If I like it and I have my zip codes and I can draw you a map on what the properties, who owns what trading, especially commercial, residential, industrial land. You name it. I feel like when I'm looking at other things in other cities, I'm like, Man, I really got to move here for, like, a month and meet some people, like, who are the heavy hitters in this area who is making the decisions, who's the city like, what is the city doing? Where is the city allocating funds? I don't know any of that in Austin, for instance. And so to me, I have about 70 doors here in Indianapolis before I leave this market, I really would like to have more than only 70 I'd like to have at least 100, 200, hopefully 500, because otherwise, I think I'd be doing myself a really big disservice to leave. I mean, Indianapolis isn't glamorous. There's no palm trees or a beach or a Lake or anything. It's just very, very strong market. You got tech here, you have transit, you have everything here. So I think for me, every time I look at another market, the returns are very lukewarm in this day and age. It's terrible returns because people are paying outrageous amounts for something that C class, for instance, or not a great area or very limited growth, or they're selling something that they're selling it on. Like, hey, if you bumped the rent, it's worth this. So you should pay me this now. And I'm like, what? No. So I don't know, I want to stay in India and just look at Indy. But I'm always learning other markets, but the deals that come across my desk, I'm sure 100 other eyes have seen it before. It came to me versus an Indy. I know I'm one of the first seeing it just so happens that I'm just staying here and building here longer, just because that's what I know. So for again, tremendous instincts. The challenge for us here is that legislatively that is now, like, way up on our board. When we're doing a SWOT analysis, legislative threats and changes are really becoming difficult and really factor into a significant amount of the pro forma. Although a lot of the legislation is well intended and there's best intentions in how they're trying to write the laws, the impacts are devastating on the investment side. Are you experiencing that over there in India? Has there been a huge shift to tenant protections and kind of a stripping of landlord rights or you haven't experienced that? There no. Indiana is a very landlord friendly state. So I know New York is totally not Illinois. Totally not. But, yeah, Indiana is very landlord friendly. And so it's Texas. So it's Florida. So that is a major reason why I'm kind of sticking to those markets. At first. Chicago is where I was born and raised my whole family is there. The city has my heart forever. But when I look at the legislation there, it's like, oh, my gosh, you don't own your property like someone else is going to make the rules for that property. You have rules on how much you can raise rent on Evictions, like in Indiana, there's no rules. I can bump the rent thousand dollars if I want to. I know the moratorium was tough for a while, but in Indiana, I mean, it's very, very landlord friendly. So that's why I always encourage people to invest in Indianapolis or anywhere in the Southeast. As I'm sure you've heard a lot of investors. Texas, like all those types of places, are very landlord friendly. Yeah. There's been a very real exodus from New York, without a doubt, a very conscious effort for investors. To kind of step back, and they're doing two things. They're trading bricks in New York for bricks in other markets and something we've been encouraging our big investors, and we started doing a couple of years ago. We're trading bricks for human capital. We're investing more and more in businesses. We're investing more and more in people. Again, this digital age has allowed us to tap into some amazing, dynamic people with great vision, focus, intention. And we're really enjoying watching those things kind of come to life in this market. And in other markets. We've gone as far out as Las Cruces, New Mexico. We have a bunch of holdings out there now because the decentralization of real estate is very real and it is happening. And in order to the barrier of entry in New York is so damn high to go out and to buy a 40, 50 unit building. You're talking serious, serious wood. And coming out of this pandemic, which is something I wanted to check on you for with your portfolio. I mean, it was tough going in, but the rules here are so difficult with collection now that it's really tough to underwrite these deals. How did you perform through the pandemic? Most of your tenants were they able to make it through? And did they pay the rent? And was it a fairly decent experience? Yeah. I'm so lucky. I didn't have any problems. I selfmanaged my single family. I have about ten doors of single family, and the rest are multi. I had one single family that was like, hey, oh, my gosh. Do you mind if I pay half now and then wait for half? But they were really forthcoming about it. And obviously, I'm like, you know what? Whatever you got to do, I'm here to work with you, and they ended up moving out at the end of it. So I was so lucky. And then one person broke their lease, but they paid the break lease fee. So I'm like, okay, like, they moved back home or whatever it was. So I had literally those two people. It was so lucky. Not lucky. That's good. Seriously, you make your own luck. That's because you're passionate about what you're doing, and I'm a huge believer in you make your own luck. You're nailing it on every single level here. You're a remarkable success story. We were very excited to have this conversation with you. Thank you. So, first off, are you doing any ground up multifamily? Is that something I'm kind of excited for as the next iteration for me. I've done a lot of building, but I want to do ground up multifamily. Is that next on the horizon for you? It is. We are in the entitlement process for a 37 unit ground up in my neighborhood, but decided recently within the last month, probably that I'm going to hold off on it because the price of materials right now, it's just ridiculous for 5 million under build. It's kind of a weird middle ground. A lot of the builders that we're talking to want 10 million plus. And for a 37 unit, I only have so much land and can only go up three stories and all this stuff with the prices right now, the way they are, the returns just aren't there. And it's not like I'm not doing anything with my capital. Otherwise, I got that 27 unit. I'm redoing. I got all these other things going on, so I'm like, I'm just going to wait. I already own the land. It's got two houses right now that are cash flowing for me. I'm just going to sit down and wait. So I'm still networking with builders and everything. I think I've pretty much narrowed down who I'm going to work with for it and just nailing down little things with the city. But right now, I'm just going to wait. I mean, how about you? Are you still going forth really strong with it? Yes. No. The entitlement process for us is maddening, like we're in an agency and we're part of the fabric of the community here. We know everybody. We do the right project. We do the right deal. We're three years into an approval on one project now three years. So for us, we are starting to see some indicators that are telling us prices are going to come down, and we think they're going to come down pretty quickly. So we're excited for six months out. But I started playing around with projects out of state, Pennsylvania, up in Northeast, PA, about 30 minutes off the New York border. I have some holdings, and I said, you know what? Let me start with one small building and just see what the experience was like. It's 2000 sqft. It's got plumbing, it's got electrical. It's got all the kind of controlled inspections. It took maybe ten days to get a full set of plans done with the contractor. We walked into the building Department, which was a store with a one page application. My executive assistant and business partner and wonderful partner in crime sent me over this application, and I was like, Beck, seriously, come on. One page. You obviously missed something here. I want to get this in today. Where's the rest of the application? And she was like, idiot. I didn't miss anything. It's one page. So we walked in with one page application and our printed out plans that our contractor put together, not even an architect. We walked out with a permit the same day while $357 for the permit. So that was seven weeks ago. Structures up and fully enclosed. Plumbing is in. Electrical is in. Controlled inspections are done waiting on one more inspection for fire stopping. And then I can go for a CFO. Wow. Easy peasy. That's awesome. Yeah. So we're going to take that next step and we want to do the ground up multifamily, but it's just untenable here. For us. Honestly, we don't have the sting power. We're not one of these big conglomerates that has $100 million fund. We're not syndicating either. We're trying to do this the same way HELOCs and pulling cash out and just good old fashioned elbow grease. But the barrier to entry in some of these other markets is so much lower, and they're dying for your business. They really want you. If you're building a responsible project, they want you to be a part of the community, and they've got agencies set up to support it. So for us, that's the next step. Wow. Well, Congrats. It's awesome. It sounds like it's been so easy. Yeah, well, up there, it has been. So there's a lot more to learn and a lot more to do, but same thing. I bought a place up there because I wanted to spend time in the town. I wanted to understand it, feel it, get to know the people. And it's just been a great experience for us. I know. It's amazing. 50 minutes ripped off already. I just have a couple of more quick questions for you. You said you were self managing your single family doors, but you also have amassed, like, 70 doors already, which again, is just freaking amazing. Are you subbing that part out? You have a management company that's handling the larger scale stuff. I do. Yeah. Who is awesome. So they are a part of my team for sure. Like, weekly calls, extremely involved. And I have tough buildings like that 27 unit. It's tough. When I purchased it. I had no taxes from the last two years. I had no leases, I had no financials. I didn't even have contact information for these people. And then my other one wasn't that bad. But it was a C class building, and there's the drama of, oh, this person broke my window, and at 01:00 a.m., they're hitting the ceiling. So I don't go over there. But my property manager handles that like a boss. She walks in. Knock, knock. Hey, what's going on? And so she is not afraid so. Yeah, I'm really lucky. That is her thing. Treat her well. Never leave me, please. And we'll go from there. My single family is overall in my neighborhood. It's like a block this way, a block that way from this very home. And so they're a lot easier to handle. So how did you come across the management company? Did you go through a long process to land on the right one, or did you hit it right out of the gate? Did not hit it out of the gate. The first one I had was horrible. I'm pretty sure they were stealing money from me, but at this point, whatever. I don't care. I'm just glad to be done. But it was actually through my broker again, who was at this networking event and met someone who knew someone who referred him. So it was again through a connection with my broker, so it's nice to hear you're not perfect. So Kimberly actually didn't get one thing right in this whole thing, and she hit the wrong management company first. So human. That's good. Oh, man. All right. So last question. Any thoughts about getting into the commercial game? Shopping centers, retail, office complexes? Is that on the horizon for you? No, not those types of things, but mixed use industrial. Yes. I actually have an loi out right now that I am supposed to be expecting a call within 30 minutes to see if it's accepted. Sounds like it's going to be so that's mixed use. It's got storefront on the bottom, apartments on the top. I have a couple of warehouse deals that I'm looking at as far as industrial goes, but I really like those types of buildings as far as storefront office space. I don't really get really jazzed up about that. I don't know, but mixed use industrial all day long. So maybe 18 or 19 months ago, we wrote an article about this, and we were really bullish on the industrial sector. Logistics micrologistics. You're absolutely in the right spot. Congratulations on all of your success. This has been a wonderful chat. How do people find you? What are your channel Tags? How do people find you on social? Yeah. So I'm on Instagram at Kimberlymarie nine 20, and at RedDoor Renovation. Or anyone can email me at Kim at Red door renovation, dot com. Kim Lee Marie, this is a great conversation. Again. Congratulations on all your success. And thanks for being a part of the show today. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It was great. Thanks. Everyone out there here it is from no Doors to 70 in remarkable speed. And I've got a feeling that we'll be talking to Kimberly again in the future. And I fully expect you to be way up there in the hundreds, pushing the thousands. So Congratulations, everyone out there. Please stay safe.