Episode 117: Following The Path To Passive Wealth With Robert Chiang

Rob Chiang is the creator of the passive wealth coaching system. He has been managing apartments since the age of 16 and has 25 years of experience with all facets of real estate investing, including but not limited to: rent collection, accounting, maintenance, remodeling, leasing, buying, selling and owning. Rob Chiang holds a California broker’s license as well as a general contracting license and currently controls $193M in investment property assets and owns $10M worth of Real Estate. He coaches students on how to create passive and generational wealth through his 7 step passive wealth coaching program. His book “7 Step Blueprint to Passive Wealth”, just hit best seller on Amazon in the commercial real estate category!!!
Get in touch with Robert: passivewealthcoaching.com

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Hey, everybody, James Prendamano here from the Prereal podcast. So this week we were joined by Robert Chiang. Robert's got an interesting story. He began managing apartments at 16 years old. He's kind of done everything you can imagine in the business. Management is something that's scary aired us. To be honest, over the years, we haven't launched that side of the business. But coming out of this podcast, I learned so much from Robert on the other side and what an amazing vertical integration this could be for Prereal. So please give this a listen. This guy's a wealth of knowledge. We picked up a lot of information on the management side. We're excited about it, and we hope it delivers value for you. As always, check it out, robert Chiang this week on the Prereal podcast. Thanks, everyone. Are you ready to bring your real estate game to the next level? My name is James Prendamano. I'm the CEO and founder of PreReal. And over the past 25 years, I've closed over a billion dollars in transactional real estate. Each week, a meeting with outstanding investors, highperforming individuals, and visionaries operating in the real estate space. These are the people that are actually out there in the real estate game right now getting it done. This podcast aims at bringing anyone's game to the next level. This is the prereal podcast. Welcome, everyone, to the Prereal podcast. We're joined today by Robert Chiang. Robert is the CEO of Passive Wealth Coach Systems, and similar to me, it appears Robert has been around the business probably as long as he can remember. He started managing apartments at the tender age of 16. He's now managing close to $200 million in portfolio assets and has acquired over $10 million of his own real estate. Really carving a heck of a path here. Robert, thanks for taking the time and joining us today. Thank you, James. I'm happy to be here, and I'm here to add value. Well, we appreciate that the audience, especially in these times where there's a lot of uncertainty out there in the market and folks are not quite sure which way things are going to go. We certainly have our own opinions and have been screaming about it for the last three years. Seeing this market coming, why don't you start it jumps out at you when you're reading that you started managing buildings or apartments at 16 years of age. Can you give the audience a little bit of context and history? Absolutely. So I've worn pretty much every hat in the multifamily industry. I started out at 16 doing the books on these big paper ledgers. They sold out like the debits and credits and the green and the white, my little pencil calculator and a ruler. So I was just getting state minimum wage for my parents so I could do the books for them because I have a personal interest. I like real estate. So that's why I said, well, why don't you just do it for us? Started doing that then following my uncle around, doing the handyman stuff because I was little, crawling in the attic and the crawl spaces, cleaning out the rats nests and just learning the business from literally from the ground up, from the gutter up. I was a little naughty so that I'd get in trouble and they would send me to go pick up all the cigarette butts around the grounds. So I wasn't naughty after that. Didn't really enjoy it. I moved up to doorknocking asking for the rents, kind of being the debt collector. That was interesting. I had some kind of hospital moments with some tenants thinking, who the hell is this kid asking me for money? Eventually went to college, got my degree in economics and came back and worked for Marcus and Militia about four years as an agent broker. And after that I started flipping houses in the ghetto. And then that led me to become a general contractor. I did my four year apprenticeship, got my general contractor's license and did contracting jobs for eight years straight, just driving. I gave up my broker's activities and I just became a house flipper and a contractor. Driving a work truck with the latter man. I mean, literally wearing a workbelt, swinging the hammer, cutting a saw for about eight years straight. Until one day I put an ad on Craigslist for my construction services. And this really nice lady, we still take care of her family's properties today. She asked if I would be the maintenance manager. I said, Well, I don't even know what that is. What's a maintenance manager? Do you want me to put an instacat on your building or I don't even know what you're asking me to do. So she brought me into her house, into her coffee table, sit down and said, well, I like you. I'd like you to do some sample work for me and then I'll have a proposal for you. So she brought me on. She liked the work. And from then on, I became a maintenance manager for like 30 units. That was my very first contract. And then from then on, it grew. So I became the maintenance manager. Then I became the actual offsite manager, collecting the rents, doing the leases, because I never let my brokerage license expire. I kept it active just in case. And so I started doing full service management. And then some of the neighbors heard work, they needed help, so I started helping them. And then it really just grew organically. I wasn't really marketing the management business, the fee management business so much because I'm still doing full time contracting. So it just gradually grew. I was managing 163 doors just by myself, me and my truck. I'm talking about these two hands in everything. And I got to the point where I need to get some leverage because I have a baby on the way. And my wife said, Rob, you cannot be working 12 hours a day anymore. You're going to have to be home sometimes. So I have to figure that out. I hired a coach. I hired a real estate coach, a realtor coach, to be specific, and he showed me how to leverage. So I hired four employees, and then the business doubled in a year. And then I started buying properties to invest in. And that's when our portfolio really grew and we started making wealth for ourselves, not just our clients. And it got to a point where we just want to get back. We want to start teaching these lessons to people. So you made a comment that you loved real estate. That can come in a lot of shapes and sizes. What is it about real estate that drives your passion? Clearly you're passionate about it. Clearly it's been in your lineage and it's something that you enjoy. I love the fact that you say you did each job, because I think that is so critical when you take that step and you become a leader, having been there and done that work yourself. For me, it's been invaluable. But what is it about the game, as I call it, that you love? Well, it's definitely a spiritual game. And they used to have this saying that commercial property is great because there's no emotions involved. You and I both know that's not true. You think only home buyers and home sellers get emotional? No, there's tons of emotions tied to properties that can serve as a generational wealth source for someone's family. And because of that, most of the jump offs are the homes that people buy. Right. They should treat them as investments, but maybe they don't. Maybe they should. And that's why I'm so passionate about real estate, because the statistics say 90% of all the millionaires in states came from real estate, and in that subset, 80%, which is a humongous chunk, their first gen millionaires. So it's not crypto, it's not SEO. It's good old fashioned real estate. It's not becoming an actor or musician. It's predictable. It's slow moving. Even if it's crashing, it's crashing, like, in slow motion. You're not going to lose your shirt if you have one bad day in real estate and everyone needs a place to live. It's going to be around forever. Even when Facebook invents sleeping pods, they're still going to need a piece of land to sit on. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's why I'm passionate about real estate, because people have fears about it. And there really are no fears that are, like, as big as your survival. It's just a matter of getting educated, getting a mentor, getting a coach, getting a partner, getting someone who can take you to the next level. So another interesting thing about real estate, you're not printing any more of it, right? It's the land that we have, is the land that we have. It's a fixed commodity. And I think especially today, there is something to be said about being able to touch, feel and literally stand on the asset and not have it just be some digital number that flashes across the screen. Many stories about individuals and families that have built immense wealth. And as you have noted so many times, it ties back to real estate. And today there are a lot of tools available to learn, right? The podcast itself, we started this thing in part to share what we had accumulated in the way of knowledge for 25 years with folks because it is a pathway for folks to reach financial freedom. CEO of Passive Wealth Coach Systems. What is passive wealth mean to you? What does it mean to the company? When you say passive wealth, what does that speak to for the audience? Sure. So we all know that term, passive income. It's thrown around on a daily basis through single, double, triple net, absolute net properties. But what does it really mean? Passive income is kind of like, okay, I get $100 a month. That's passive income. It could come from anything. It could come from affiliate marketing. Right? But passive wealth, that's just a whole nother level. Passive wealth is how you get financial freedom in your sleep, right? Because when you amass a certain amount of properties, on average, they might appreciate 10% a year. And when you compound that, the properties are creating wealth for you while you sleep. And in the meantime, they're cash flowing. Will that help? They're cashflowing if you bought them with the right metrics. And so that's why we helped create a system for our clients to work hard and work smart in the beginning. Getting the machines set up. Getting the passive wealth machines set up so that it can create passive wealth. Not just passive income. But generational wealth. Financial freedom. Freedom of time. Duration. Location and activity. Which is what everybody wants. But thinks it's some far off. Unattainable thing. When really it may just be a matter of focusing that's required. So that ties into my next question or statement is we hear and we see, as you have noted, passive income. Passive income, it's so easy and it's not. We know that immense sacrifice, immense focus and level of intention required to excel in the real estate game in your company and your system. What level of investor do you have to be to reach out and find value in your program? Are you speaking to folks that have X amount of assets already under management and you're showing better ways to do it through technology or whatever your systems are? Or are you talking to and coaching up folks who don't own a single piece of real estate yet? Who is your target audience? Who are you speaking to and who are you helping? Definitely I appreciate that question, James. So our audience are two types real estate professionals that have some experience and want to scale up their income. Secondly is real estate investors who have at least one property. We're really not focusing on newbies that have no assets and no real estate licenses whatsoever simply because there's just a big gap there to bridge. But once you at least have a license, some experience, you sold some homes, maybe you started managing a few homes, then you have some foundation we can definitely build upon. And if you own one or two properties, which is 10 million head count of 10 million people in the states only own one or two units of rental properties. They don't know how to scale. I mean that's obvious. There's fear holding them back or maybe family members who aren't on board because they don't have a mentor or system to follow. And that's where we come in. So Mindset I think is I was going to say perhaps. I'm not going to say perhaps. Mindset, I believe, is the single biggest barrier for the overwhelming majority of folks that have been unable to scale. Scaling is for us, it's been the most difficult thing to do for a number of reasons, but to scale efficiently without having the right mindset, I feel like you can stack all the systems you want on someone if the space between their ears is not right. You really can't even get out of the gate. Do you deal with mindset in your coaching 100%? I have six coaches myself and so, I mean, we definitely get our baselines. We have our clients apply to make sure it's a good fit. We only take clients who will do will play full out, they'll take action, they'll celebrate. We'll do positive reinforcement and that way we know it's a recipe for success. So mindset is everything exactly like you said. I can't report if you believe you can do it, you're right. You believe you can, you're also right. And there's a fine line brother, between those two. There really is. It's interesting that it seems like overnight, and I know obviously it hasn't been overnight, but it does feel like overnight sometimes that coaching has become so prevalent in real estate. It seems like for two decades there was almost no talk of real estate specific coaching, very limited unless you really were in it and you really were turning over every rock. Now it seems like there's a coach at every corner. And I can tell you from experience I also have several coaches. And I was the guy, and I'm not embarrassed to say this anymore because it's been a huge part of my growth, but I was the guy that was a really good deal maker and I didn't need a coach. I knew how to make deals and I knew how to do what I was doing and in that very limited scope I did. But when I started getting coached up, I recognized this unbelievable world of opportunity that was out there. And unfortunately, there are a lot of coaches that are coaching things that they don't have a damn clue about. To be candid. There's a lot of folks that profess to be experts in things and they're not experts in them. So having the right coach is everything and it has unlocked a whole nother universe for me. One of my first Real coaches on one deal was a multimillion dollar swing because I was in the wrong headspace. I was not seeing it clearly. And through our sessions, they literally swam the pendulum a few million dollars on one deal. Amazing. It is amazing. The unbelievable opportunities that started to the doors were always there, but they were closed, so they kind of get shut out. And as I started getting into the right space with the right people, the doors were flying open all around me and it was just a natural progression to start walking through these doors. So are you coaching specifically on the passive wealth model as a whole? Are you coaching specifically on the management side? Where are your disciplines lying? And what type of investor or realtor should be looking and saying, okay, Robert is my guy, robert is the one that's going to take me to the next level? Yeah. We have two topics that's investing and management. Owning a management business with management activities, that's a passive business when you build it, right? Passive income generating business, which leads to enough income so you can buy passive wealth generating assets. That's the path I took, was building up the management company to a point where it was spitting out plenty of revenue with very little involvement from myself. So we could go buy assets and we could flip them, and then 1030 we wanted to more. So we just started with one little dinky house for seven hundred and fifty K Seven turns later, it's seven and a half million dollars. So it's not that hard. I'm not that smart of a guy, so I'm not a rocket scientist. I just went to econ at UC Irvine, for goodness. Come on. I was changing toilets seven years ago. I had no other job. That was my only job at the time. I've been that Realtor driving around clients, like ten trips with buyers in my backseat. That's ten weekends away from my family, and I don't get paid a dime because they shouldn't get an offer accepted. I've been there. I know a lot of Realtors are really frustrated. I think the stat was 87% fail, which is that's horrible. But they fail because they quit because they're not making money. And I know property management is seen as like the ugly duckling of the real estate world. It's not glamorous. You're not in a REIT, you're not doing lending. It's not a cushy office job, like a title company or something like that. It's associated with being a blue collar job. Right. But the thing is that we learned it's recession proof and pandemic proof. It's an essential business and we grew during the pandemic. That's how I know that if you're a realtor and you add this little management thing as a side hustle, if you say yes I'll lease up your house or sure I'll watch your ten flex when you go to the Bahamas, if you go ahead and say yes instead of stop saying no every time because it's beneath you, you might enjoy some passive income. So the management thing, I was excited to talk to you, if I could be honest, because the management piece of it, not because it's the ugly duckling. I've also done it all. I've been in every position. That's why I see the immense value having walked in those shoes, I've been on every side of the transaction residential, commercial land, new development, pre development you name it, I've done it. And management is always the one thing that's eluded us and it is an immense opportunity because there are not that many folks that are doing it and doing it well. So what have I missed? And could I come to you? We've got a very successful brokerage, we've got a really robust investment side. We're doing a lot of equity deals we don't self manage and we have turned down countless opportunities to manage. Every time it comes up, I kinda say, you know what, maybe and I say leave it to the experts. You know, half of the coaches will tell you do what you do best, stay in that gift, outsource the rest. And others will tell you that there are unbelievable vertical integrations right in front of you, that you're not capitalizing on, that when you fold it into the mix you become that much more efficient, you have that much more control, you're that much more bulletproof or recession proof as you had noted. And it's a fine line between which way to go and where to put your time and energy. Because time in this business is a very very very valuable commodity and a fleeting one at that. So what have I missed here? And what is the process look like? Is this a six month, a six year program? How do we get to that level where we can scale, manage our own, manage externally? And is it residential and commercial management or those completely separate disciplines, programs, software, skill sets and everything else? So our program is geared towards residential, meaning smaller properties, apartment complexes. We do manage some commercial property but just as a favorite to those clients that we've known for so long. Because the leases are different, the policies are different. The gross lease versus an apartment complex is going to have different policies for expenses and whatnot. So it's easier for us just to focus on the apartment niche, the multifamily niche. And for a company like yours that's very established, adding on the arm of inhouse management team, it wouldn't be that involved, there would be set up. But the benefits, if you just focus on the benefits right. You're in front of the apartment owners on a daily basis. Now the high end tenant base becomes your possible I want to buy a home when I move out. Client base. Right. And you know where people are. You get more staff. Now your maintenance crew becomes your remodeling crew for your own projects. You have more buying power, you have more local networking power. So is it right for you? I mean, that's a personal business question. And how long are they we don't do a one size fits all course, so it all depends on what the client's goals are. We have to do a roadmap for each client and see what the gap is and how we're going to get in there. So if someone is already having 50 units under management, they want to get to 200. That's a different map than somebody that owns ten units and wants to get to owning 40. Right? It's a different map. We serve both niches, but it's just a different map. And how long it's going to take for them to get there? Well, that depends. Do they own all the properties free and clear? Do they have debt? What's the market looking like? How long have they owned them? Which way do they want to go? Do they want to get partners? They want to do it themselves. So pardon me stepping in here, but you're hitting on a lot of key pieces that I wanted to touch on because it's been some of the barriers for us. You're located in California, right? Okay. So from a market pricing perspective, we're similar. From a legislative risk perspective, we're similar. Legislative risk has been one of the number one reasons that we have stayed away from the management side. We had a very robust rental program. We were doing really well, significant revenue, and we abandoned it when the latest set of rules came out because it took look, there were some things that were going on that are just disgusting and should be regulated and should be targeted and should be addressed. But then there are other things that are completely benign and completely innocent that can put you on the other end of a really difficult situation. So from a legislative and a financial risk perspective, I guess the answer is yes. But I have to ask it anyway. You feel that there's a pathway where through the management model alone, you can be profitable and carry the proper insurances and deal with the risk management. It seems at least like it's a side of the business that's just rife with risk and litigation exposure. Yes. When you mentioned insurance, I'm like, oh yeah, my insurance tripled. But not because we got to, we have never been to, but just because of all the losses that happened during COVID, the insurance rates just tripled. And the carriers I think so many carriers went bankrupt. It's just fascinating because there's so many payoffs, even if the claims are frivolous, I mean, that's just something that goes with the territory, right? Like the worst claim that ever happened that I heard about was one tenant had a water leak. It was upstairs, downstairs unit, and it leaked downstairs. And they reported the leak to the landlord about a month later. But they refused access. They blocked access and said they were sick. They didn't want anybody to enter. And they got a huge payoff. I mean, they got a big payout. And I don't even know how that's legal, but these things happen. They don't shut down the management company. I mean, the insurance pays out. That's the insurance's job to negotiate with the tenant's lawyer. Is there a litigation? Yeah. The tenants not pay the rent? Sometimes, yes. It's like that in some counties here still. I don't know why it's still like that. Do we have to make creative solutions like giving them 10K for their keys? Yes, I did one last week. Time or money, james, you know that, right? Yes, without a doubt. Just when it's time and money, it's problematic. Yeah, that's a rare case for the most part. Honestly, that's why I wrote the books, because it's passive. So, for example, let's just take one unit example. That's really easy for parts of the audience. One unit, one single family home. It gets rented out. You do work to get the lease up. So what, you get a leasing fee, what is it, half the month's rent? That's free market, right? And then they move in and they're going to need some tunnels within two weeks. That's fine. What is that? One phone call, one email to the contractor to go back there. So that's very 1 hour payroll so far. And you're still in a monthly management fee. They might call you two to three times during the next twelve months. So there is some set up, there's some work, but usually they never call you. Like tenants don't call you unless there's a problem. Now, your fee structure, when you had noted your insurance tripled. Right? My understanding experience with this is it's a set percentage, three, four, five, 6%, whatever it is. Is what you charge ownership on gross receipts that's collected? Is there a carve out or is there a hedge against things like your insurance tripling? Is it cost plus the percentage? Or is that just something that you eat in that calendar year and then you recast it in the next calendar year? How does that work? Our personal business model is we don't charge any junk fees. We don't charge mailing or anything extra. We don't charge extra admin fee or onsite inspection fee. It's just a straight percentage. And some people in parts of the country, you'll need to charge what's called a minimum fee because you have to know your running costs. Rents here in the barrier. If it's $5,000 for a house, you can charge 8%. Right, and it's fine. But if you're in Missouri and the rent is $500 a month, I don't think you're going to take $50 for a month. You shouldn't you should have a minimum of, whatever, $200 a month. You should have a ceiling. I'm sorry, a floor, a fee floor for what you do so you can scale, because what you're doing is you're taking the burden off the owner, and that has value. That's tremendous value. Now, again, because you focus on passive, and passive is passive management is very active. Does your system teach how to get to a place of it truly, being a passive management company? Again, we've never done it, but I know the stories. I've been in the business my whole life, and it just seems like it's one of those businesses where you're constantly in the weeds, and when you're in the weeds, man, you get lost. It's tough. Is there really a pathway to passively manage a building or buildings? Yes. So when I say passive, I mean passive for the building, for the management company owner. Right, of course. Yeah, for the owner. So no headaches for the owner. And obviously, the employees have to do the work. Right. It's about automating systems, making everyone accountable, having a good company mission, a vision, everyone's on board with it's, about who not how. Right. Everyone has to have ownership of the outcomes. Weekly, weekly team meetings, having great software in place. All the rents are digitally collected. The owners are paid out digitally. I mean, all the leases are signed digitally from first contact to I'm happy you're at your new place. Everything is digital. There's a single piece of paper that changes hands so there's no errors, there's no mistakes. It's automated. I mean, before, the process used to take hours just to show somebody an apartment. We've taken keys pretty much out of the game. They're all digital locks now.


They kind of forced us in COVID, right? Nobody wants to see each other. So digital digital contact, free everything. Virtual tours. You know, we'll do a professional virtual tour, maybe sometimes with digital furniture, just to get just to get payroll hours way down so that instead of having five people manage a portfolio of 250, they can manage a thousand units. So that's how you can scale and grow your profits substantially and make it worth the one call that gives you a headache a month. So technology has absolutely given us the ability to automate and transact real estate without ever seeing the asset. During COVID, we sold our first multi million dollar piece of real estate. It was a multi family through Manipur tours. I mean, those things are unbelievable. You're there. You control it. We tell our customers, put your mail away, because literally, you can read people's mail in these things. They're wicked, wicked accurate. So you're using tech to. Help achieve scale. And is there a model? Like, you have to plan on two years of just investing in the company, and you have to be at 50 units before you start to break even. Is that part of the formula here? Or are you able to grow it as you go and kind of stay out of the red, if you will, as you're scaling, what are the reasonable real expectations? I think especially if you're already a realtor you already have your forms. We're talking about me, baby. We're going to do the management thing. Yeah, I'm calling you after this. You've got me convinced already. We're doing this. So, yeah, you're a realtor. You're in the business. You've got infrastructure. You want to launch this part of your company. I think within six months, it should implementation everything. You should be rolling. Just a matter of getting the units online, right? The systems are not that hard. It's just putting the employees in place. Since it's not you. You need a GM of property management. You need your leasing team. You need your maintenance team, which you can easily just outsource start with meaning you just hire a general contractor who has at least three or four employees who can handle the workload. Somebody wants to fill their schedule in between the remodeling and the new homes. I'm sure there's somebody who doesn't mind doing that. And then you have an agreement that, hey, look, when I call you, you got to go. And when I call you on Saturday. Sunday. Not me. But when anybody on the team emails you the work order, you have to be responsible, and they say yes. And then you still have three backup vendors. So it's just a matter of I think the anxiety comes from not having the vendors in place. It's like, oh, who's going to call me at night when the toilet burst? Or something like that. But that's so rare. I mean, that's why you qualify the property before you agree to take it on. Qualify the owner. If it's an outside owner, you qualify the owner. Again. You have to get with your mission and your values. You're not a freaking slum lord. You're going to be the best landlord somebody ever had. So because of that, you need an owner that does not care what apex is that year, because they want their building running to top right, and you want to make sure that they're going to be working with you. Okay? So when you qualify them, in the beginning, it's easy. It's easy. But when it's really hard is you get an owner that doesn't want to spend any money because the tenant calls and says, hey, Team Rob, there's brown water coming out of my pipes. Y'all need to do something about that. And I'll call the owner. This is a true story, by the way. I called the owner and said, hey, it's kind of bad. Did you want to fix the pipes? No, it was fine. I was fine with it when I lived there, man. I don't know. There's some tough stories, and I think the business got a target on it in some respects because it deserved it. I know of a landlord, a big landlord in New York, another true story. We were in their management office. Somebody came in and complained that the roof was leaking. Without missing a beat, the landlord turned around and said, consider yourself lucky I haven't put a meter on it. Like wow, right? Like, my gosh, the businesses. There are some folks that have earned the reputation, but I guess that's what you're talking about, qualifying your owner, qualifying the property, and making sure that your company values and the company goals are reflective of the types of buildings and folks that you work for and with and that you represent back filling the vendors. Pretty easy being in the business. You've got a long list of folks that would be thrilled and happy to be a part of this. A number of those vendors have asked me, why don't you get a management thing going? Because there is some opportunity there. So let me ask you about geography. Are you supposed to stay geographically focused or as you scale, are you able to manage things that are not in your immediate backyard? I definitely think once you optimize and scale, there's no reason you can't do it in another area. But just going back to the topic we just talked about, the third point, which is extremely important, is to train the tenant base. You have to train and condition the tenant base positively reinforced their mindset to report little problems before they become huge problems. We do real frequent maintenance surveys, which is just a click of a button in the software. Just a click, which means you're training the tenant to tell you, oh, there's a little bubble in the ceiling. It's like the size of a quarter. I didn't see it yesterday. You're training them to tell you right away, not how most tenants wrongly think. I'm not going to bother James Management Incorporated because it's Saturday and nobody wants to take my call. I'll call them in like, ten days when I feel like it. Meanwhile, it becomes a bubble in the ceiling and then creates mold, and the $200 fix becomes $20,000 and insurance claim and hotel stays. So we condition all the tenants to report, happily report, so that we can fix it, keep them happy, keep them renewing, get them to tell their friends and family to move in the complex. And that creates synergy, because what you don't want is tenants and landlords butting heads. That's when they start damaging the property. That's when they start littering the property instead of taking care of it like it's their own. Now you have a force of, like, pseudo managers at the property so you can create your own environment. You know that. It's just you can create a bad environment. You can create a good one, so why not just create a good one? And I would assume that the management, as you're cultivating this relationship, as you had noted earlier, you're in the room with the owner. That becomes a conduit then, for when they want to sell. You're a natural person to speak to about acquiring the asset. Does that make sense? Of course. You are the first line of everything for them, and then you just get a quick authorization. I just want to make sure I'm not going to ask any of the tenants to move, but if they express interest, we're going to go ahead and ask to be their broker. Just want to give you an ethical heads up, make sure it's okay once you do. Game on. So you've got a book, Seven Step Blueprint to wealth. Is that focus on the management side or on the ownership side? The first book, this one is focused more 80% on the management and 20% on investment, because you can really never separate the two. You're either self managing or you're managing the manager. And so, just like you said, you wore all the hats when you were younger, so you do a much better job managing since you know how to do it yourself. And this book is providing value for those who want to build a management business or grow it or simply know more about it, so they have insight on how to manage their portfolio they own. My second book is coming out January 1, and that's 80% on investing, 20% on managing. And we get a sneak peek on the title. Yes. This one is the heroic system, the Seven Step. That's why it's heroics. And the next one, I haven't finalized the title, but it's a pressure. P-R-E-S-S-U-R-E. Pressure system for investing in real estate. It's another acronym. I got to make a catchy, james for all the merchandise. Absolutely, man. We trademarked pre reel for that exact reason. We market tested it, and it seemed to land with people, so that certainly is part of it. This has been fascinating, I've got to admit. 25 years plus in the business. It's something I've stayed away from. And I'm excited we're going to engage with you offline because it's one of those spokes of the wheel, if you will, that helps feed the machine. Real estate is the end to everything. Having a real estate license, for some people, I feel like they feel that it's frowned upon. And people like, oh, you're a realtor. Like, man, if you're a realtor, you got an into everything, brother. This is the place to be. There's no doubt about it. You're not trading time for money if you set your systems upright. And the sky is really the limit. So this has been a wonderful chat. I think that if nothing else, it should give people a different perspective when they're thinking about the investing and managing. Where is the best place for folks to find you, Robert? They can get on my website, passiveWealthcoaching.com. They can also find me on Facebook. Same thing. Passive wealth coaching Facebook business page. Same thing on LinkedIn. Passive wealth coaching as always, folks. The links will be below. Definitely check out Robert's Content. He's got a lot of content out there. Very helpful stuff. Some neat videos, some funny videos. Robert, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining and sharing the story with us. It's been an honor. James and I look forward to continue to chat. Absolutely pre. Real management coming soon, baby. Robert Chiang. Let's make it happen. All right. Thank you, Robert. Everybody out there, as always, please stay safe.