Podcast Episode 154 Transcript

Episode 154: Ground Up vs Value Add & Why You Might Have It Wrong with Shannon Robnett

folks this week on the pre-real podcast

we're joined by Shannon robnett if

you're interested in learning uh about

the real estate market how to Syndicate

how to build a a company that is really

by volume just absolutely exploded

Shannon has got a a wealth of knowledge

down to earth a real genuine guy it was

a wonderful conversation uh he gave some

some really amazing nuggets throughout

the conversation some things that from

an investment perspective or things you

want to keep an eye out for Shannon Robnett this week on the pre-roll podcast

don't miss it guys this was a really

good one

are you ready to bring your real estate

game to the next level my name is James

Prendamano I'm the CEO and founder of

prereal the past 25 years I've closed

over a billion dollars in transactional

real estate each week I'm meeting with

outstanding investors High performing

individuals in visionary 's operating in

the real estate space these are the

people that are actually out there in

the real estate game right now

this podcast aims at bringing anyone's

game to the next

this is the pre-real podcast welcome

everyone to the pre-real podcast we're

joined today by Shannon robnett

Shannon's the CEO of robnett Industries

uh has built a really amazing portfolio

uh over 250 million dollars in

construction projects everything from

Flex space and multi-families through

municipal buildings and storage uh

Shannon has a background in real estate

I think it's four four generations is in

in realtor in two generations is as

build a developer is that correct yeah

there's actually five my sons followed

me into the business so there's really

five generations of real estate uh we go

clear back to the Great Depression even

though we didn't cause it

I love it so uh how old is your son my

son's 26 now yeah

so

um that lands for me my my son is still

in high school he's he's 15 years old

um and we we've got a portfolio we've

been building out in New Mexico and he

just took a trip with me last week and

he's got the bug man like he he is all

in he wants to learn the land side of

things and he's fascinated well you know

James I came out of high school wanting

nothing to do with my real estate

background in fact I did uh I went to

college and I'm sitting there taking you

know all of your core classes accounting

econ you know speech all those things

that I didn't like and my brother was

building houses and at you know 18 years

old he was making 45 Grand a year in

1994 and you know I'm working at a

coffee shop to make it up to cover my

car insurance so I could live with my

parents or go to college and I quickly

quickly learned that I'd been taught a

lot at the kitchen table growing up and

I just didn't realize it and so I very

humbly put my proverbial hat in my hand

and went back to my dad and said hey you

know what I'd like to start building

some houses and and uh he started me on

that Journey on in building my own

company and uh it's been it's been an

amazing one and then my son kind of

similar story he didn't really want to

have a whole lot to do with the business

growing up and then you know he saw the

kind of money that he had the

opportunity to make at a call center or

going to college or whatever and very

quickly changed his tune as well

it's um it's a beautiful business if if

you love it yeah you've got the passion

for it it really I wouldn't trade what I

do for for anything so you you're in you

you go to college you come out you make

the shift now your portfolio is almost

entirely centered in the Boise Market

correct well that's uh that used to be

the case but you know Boise's become a

very appreciation-centric market and so

we've Diversified out we're in Florida

Texas Washington uh and we're getting

ready to do a deal in Tennessee uh so

you know we've uh We've really focused

on markets that are you know like Boise

I mean Boise's made everybody's list for

the last decade as far as you know best

places to do whatever

but you know James as you know you you

would much rather have a mediocre deal

in a great Market than a great deal in a

mediocre market so you know we primarily

look at Market first and then once we've

identified our market and and this is

one we want to pursue then only at that

point do we even bother to consider

deals in that area

it you know it's interesting you you say

that Shannon we we have a a book club in

The Brokerage side of of the business

and we're we're currently reading a book

I won't mention the name of it with the

team and one of the principles that it

talks about is not concerning yourself

with things that you can control like

the geopolitical climate and for us that

has been the opposite of what has driven

so many of our decisions uh in which

markets we're going to

make a significant push in from an

investment perspective and markets that

were not the political climate to me is

number one on the SWOT analysis when

we're determining if we're going to jump

in or not how much does that play into

your decisioning you know 100 I mean

look you wouldn't go buy a car a car at

a dealership where they they were known

to take advantage of people why would

you go into a market that is known to

take advantage of landlords uh and be

overly friendly to tenants I mean why

put yourself in an unfair Advantage when

you're the one that's betting millions

of dollars bringing in investor Capital

uh to make that a reality I mean it just

absolutely doesn't make sense so the

first thing we look at is that you know

are we in a state that that prefers

landlords are we in a state that's

development friendly that wants to see

growth you know there's clearly states

out there like California and obviously

New York that are not interested in

development and they've done that by

putting up red tape they've done that I

mean James I just got a project entitled

it's a it's currently a warehouse in an

opportunity Zone uh I got it entitled

for 200 units of multi-family uh two

blocks from the mall half mile from the

main bus terminal in Boise uh got that

completely entitled in four months right

nothing says we want growth like that

kind of an opportunity right and so when

you can do that I mean especially at our

age why go beat your head against the

wall just to prove you can do it you

know you and I are not the Donald Trumps

of the world we're not looking for the

fight you know I just want to make some

money I want to make some my investors

some money uh I want to provide housing

to the communities and I want to do it

in a responsible way in a community that

appreciates me

yeah it's uh

it's become my home Market of course is

is New York and

it has become so challenging and this is

the the simple equation for for us and a

lot of other successful investors when

the risk is no longer commensurate to

the reward you move on absolutely it's

it's that simple and uh we have a

similar experience in New Mexico now

where we're working through rezonings

we're working through entitlements for a

hotel and we're talking about a few

months and de minimis filing fees

tremendous cooperation up and down the

Spectrum uh wonderful people that are

embracing uh responsible growth that

want to be a part of something special

um one of the deals that I I recently

exited in my hometown now imagine in New

York 16 Acres that's a big piece of

property it is on 16 Acres I was four

and a half years into a process no

Wetlands so no DEC none of that stuff

four and a half years into a process

with zoning in place to get 51 homes

built

and four and a half years in we still

didn't have approvals for 51 homes we

were two and a half three million

dollars long in filing fees and

professional fees and we still were

battling and I I had that moment where I

said

we've passed that point now and until

things start to throttle back and and I

don't see it unfortunately uh folks like

us are just opting to go to other places

the opportunity Zone you mentioned is a

amazing program and New York has

decoupled from the program they're not

honoring the state benefit yeah so you

know on just our projects and and our

investments and our partners and our

clients I mean it's got to be hundreds

of millions that have left the state to

go to other locations that are uh

embracing the opportunity Zone Program

and there's some wonderful projects that

have come from it well and you know when

you talk about that you know everybody

looks at stuff like that and they go

well that's just you know a tax break

for the rich but you know I've literally

had people pick this investment over

other Investments uh because of the tax

preference and and what they've done is

they've sold something they have a

capital gain that they're gonna pay

right they're able to delay that till

2026 but they've chosen this and we're

taking a 45 000 square foot Warehouse

that's home to four businesses currently

uh it's outdated it was built in the 70s

uh and we're putting 200 uh home or 200

apartments and there's 64 of them are

low income and you know James we've

taken that and we've looked at it not

only from the investment standpoint from

the tax benefit standpoint so you know

imagine you've got a capital gain event

that you you exit you come into the

opportunity Zone with that warehouse on

there we're able to take and do a bonus

depreciation we had a it was a five and

a half million dollar purchase for the

warehouse we were able to take about a

million six of the two and a half

million dollars in equity we've brought

we were able to give them bonus

depreciation for that next year uh sorry

the end of this year will tear down the

building right so you'll finish off the

bonus to pre or the depreciation because

you no longer have an asset so you claim

another two million 2.2 million dollars

in tax benefit before you even get to

2026. so you don't have a tax event

right then we're bringing in latex

funding low-income tax credit housing

funding from the federal government for

about nine and a half million dollars in

our tax in our Capital stack so that's a

benefit to us the community loves us

because we're providing affordable

housing 10 years from now when we exit

that after improving it to the tune of

82 million dollars in our community

everybody walks away with zero tax

implications at that point so you know

we've taken a great deal we've made it

substantially better by utilizing the

things that that friendly States offer

that make good deals phenomenal yeah the

the ability to have control over your

capital and put it to work in the

opportunity zones as as you noted you're

creating jobs on the demo side on the

construction side on the the permanent

side once you stabilize and have to

maintain uh your it it's a great program

that really does put people back to work

and and provides a boon for the local

economies you know you've built you've

built some big operations here

um in volume I'm curious in Personnel

what does the company look like

Personnel wise you know we are actually

uh I'm downsizing my Construction

Company we're doing a lot more outside

of Boise and I'm not the kind of guy

that wants to be managing my own

Personnel in Tennessee uh or you know

Florida so we're downsizing that but

there's currently uh I think there's

we're down to about nine of us uh in our

in our complete operation so we've got

uh you know three full-time employees in

the construction side of things

um and then

um

we've got six of us in in the capital

raise and and the you know

um

investor relations portion and and

underwriting

um you know on that side so we're really

kind of Shifting that Focus because for

the same amount of energy I mean the

reality is I've got to oversee all of

this so if I'm trying to manage a

construction portion even though I've

got you know great personnel and I've

got project managers and I've got great

superintendents I can't manage them to

the degree that I need to

um and have the level of success that I

expect and so you know I've got projects

uh you know all the way across the

nation now and doing that to me the best

way is to step into a local market I

prefer the interview process because

I've been doing this long enough I've

been in you know my own companies for 30

years in construction

um I prefer the interview process and

when I find an owner that is geared like

me wired like me understands the project

success is really firmly in their hands

they understand that speed is is it they

understand that you know great great

connections with local subcontractors is

core to their success uh then I find

that's my guy right and then we look at

making sure that uh that we line up on

where we're at I always involve

subcontractors and and general

contractors in the development of the

plans

um because you know I obviously don't

know everything and when I can employ

them and I can I can get them to help me

build out what's best for the whole

operation it really really works well uh

really tones down the change orders

really tones down uh the delays it

speeds up the communication Because by

the time we're breaking ground

everybody's familiar with the plans

so you mentioned um six people on the

the capital raise size side of the deal

so we we hear quite a bit from folks

we've got a great deal uh but we don't

know where to begin we don't know how to

how to raise capital and oftentimes

they'll end up brokering it out uh

because they don't recognize if you have

the deal

the capital will come yeah what advice

would you give to folks that are in that

position that have access to deals but

they haven't thought about or figured

out the capital raise piece well I mean

look uh James you've been in this game a

long time and if you've done it like

I've done it I'm I got a pretty sneak in

suspicion that you have uh you went and

found those that knew what you didn't

and you found out how to make them

teammates right I mean there's no sense

somebody's got a great deal there's no

sense giving it away right there's no

sense walking it away yeah but I know

for a fact if I if I found a deal uh and

I couldn't raise the capital I came to

you and I said hey James listen I have

this great deal I need the knowledge I

need the information if I bring you this

deal can I have a small piece of it and

will you show me how to do this deal I

know the answer would be absolutely yes

right if it checked the boxes if it

worked through with what you're doing

um I would and I do that all the time

with people right they bring me a deal

you know what this is a great deal uh

and you just go open kimono you just

show them what you know and they either

decide that they want to be all things

to all people which is rare right I

happened to be one of those uh unicorns

that I I can raise capital I can I can

vet and you know build deals I can

manage deals

um you know I I our team does all of it

but a lot of people don't they focus on

what they're good at which is really

smart you know you'd never call your

plumber and have him pave your parking

lot you know uh and so why would you

think that you've got to raise all the

capital and and find the deals if you're

great at finding deals find strategic

Partners like yourself or myself that

you can take these deals to gain a piece

of The Upside learn from there and you

know move on and Advance your strategies

become better at what you do without

having to be uh you know a fish out of

water because the last thing you want to

do is figure out how to pull the capital

together okay so now you did step one

you found the deal step two you pulled

the capital together step three you got

to go execute on that model well those

are three very different hats to wear I

mean it only took me 30 years to figure

out what I'm doing and you know why

would you want to think that you could

do all of that or had to do all of that

you know it's funny I I find about every

five years or so I think I figured it

out every five years or so I go oh okay

now I understand the way this thing's

supposed to be done right

um look we're hearing now Shannon a lot

of the talking heads that the real

estate market is is in trouble and the

sky is falling and there's no debt

available and foreclosures are going

through the roof uh what are you seeing

on the ground and and how are you seeing

next steps in the market

well I mean it's just like you know

every bit of news we're getting nowadays

is it's completely biased one-sided and

usually full of garbage yeah I mean I'm

I'm closing on an industrial deal I just

closed on one two months ago in in the

Houston Market with uh four percent debt

uh I'm getting ready to close on another

one with five and an eighth debt fixed

for 10 years with a 10-year option

um you know debt is still out there debt

is still plentiful capital is still out

there what's changed is the dscr that

nobody was paying attention to the debt

service coverage ratio that tells you

that you can't go get 90 loan to value

on a value you had uh because you've got

Debt Service now I mean three percent

Debt Service come on James we've never

seen that in our life we probably won't

see it again and so to think that we're

going to be able to make that model work

now be able to make those numbers work

it just doesn't it doesn't pencil like

that most banks want to see a 125

coverage on their debt so if you've got

a ten thousand dollar mortgage they want

to see you have you know 12-5 in in noi

um and a lot of people look at it and go

well the purchase price is you know 40

million dollars I should be able to

bring in you know

8 million and make this deal work well

that's not what's happening anymore and

so a lot of people built their model

based on you know we're going to do this

40 million dollar deal we're going to

put Bridge debt in place uh at the end

of our our time period there we're going

to flip that bridge to perm we're going

to cash out refi we're going to create

it value

but cap rates have changed right cap

rates of crap back up cap rates this is

the first time in my life James after

doing this for 30 years that I've ever

seen cap rates be inverted to debt right

I mean you've got cap rates that are

still in the you know fives and you've

got debts at the high fives you know low

sixes and so that's an inversion I've

never seen yep so you've got that that's

happened so your your property is you

know even though you you've executed

perfectly on your game plan you came in

you rehabbed uh you raised the rents you

improved the product you've solved the

vacancy problem you've done all that you

still have a an asset that may in some

cases be worth less on paper

you may have a stronger noi but then

when you go and apply that Roi to the

debt service coverage ratio you're not

able to get the capital out and so

people are either not getting their

return to their investors or worst case

scenario they're having to do a cash in

refinance which leaves them in the

predicament do I sell now for a loss

or do I go back to my investors and and

raise more Capital to come into the same

deal they're already in uh lowering the

expectation lowering the returns because

they didn't play Real Estate as a long

game yep you know I mean you know a lot

of people are playing uh you know real

estate is a One-Shot deal it's a 12 to

24 month deal and it's not man it's 18

holes of golf it is you know bunkers and

trees and all kinds of covid and and you

know shortages on materials and I mean

we've got all kinds of stuff that have

happened and that's not unusual so we've

just got to play it that way and when

you play it that way uh probably like

you have definitely like I have you know

you're not surprised and your investors

are looking at something that's you know

underwritten properly it's scored

properly and when you're doing that

what's going on in the news absolutely

has no bearing and no effect what's

going on in the in the in the capital

markets has no bearing and no effect on

any of my projects

the the long game it that that's it

that's where it starts and stops with we

saw for years especially in the

multi-family Market Pro Forma after pro

forma come in where they were chasing

the you know their loss to lease and

they were gonna increase rents by 30

percent they were going to cut

management by 20 in the market they had

no experience in when inflation was at

probably 11 or 12 percent in spite of

what was reported exactly and in spite

of there still being favorable long-term

fixed debt they were opting just to make

the Pro Forums work for that shorter

term debt and banking on these refi's

and it was like guys if you I I call it

getting to the other side of the rainbow

if you can't get to the other side of

the rainbow in real estate you are dead

right you know the the excuses and

that's what they are that we hear today

about covid and supply chain issues and

these are the names have changed but the

circumstances have not right then it was

10 years ago and ten years before that

there are anomalies in the market that

are always going to be there and if

you're responsible with the debt and

you're giving yourself time to stabilize

the deal and get to the other side

that's the magic sauce for us at least

has been staying power and making sure

that we're not over leveraged then we're

smart with our debt well you know I mean

look you can pencil whip a spreadsheet

to tell it whatever you want right I

mean especially if you had a nice uh

nice cocktail or you know a beard to it

while you're doing your calculations you

could make it say You're Gonna you're

gonna make a million dollars a month on

this but you know anytime like you

anytime I see a performance performer

that has less than a five-year duration

on it I'm immediately suspect right

because you're timing the market it's no

different to me than the guy that's now

crying about the price of Tesla uh

because he got in you know one week

before the peak it's no different than

the investor that got into the last real

estate cycle in 08 uh in December of 07

you know the there's there's a lot of

that that's happening and it and it will

continue to happen it's human nature

right everybody wants to do it but this

goes back to seasoned investors they may

not know the best deals but they know

how to vet the sponsors they really know

how to understand look I'm a doctor I'm

a lawyer I'm you know High w-2-way

journal in Silicon Valley what I need to

know is does James know what he's

talking about and does James have the

track record did James go through the 08

recession did James go through the.com

Bubble Burst I mean how many how what

this one will be what my fourth

recession third or fourth recession

right so it's not like I like recessions

but I've made a lot of money in them

because I've learned from the last one

and I've just like you said the name has

changed right uh we're going to change

it to something else I mean you know we

had we had the.com Bubble Burst we had

Y2K remember that one right somebody

reminded me we went through Y2K right uh

when all the computers were supposed to

die and you know all this different

stuff but it's about that longevity it's

about understanding your Horizon and

knowing where you're going and knowing

that your underwriting is there that we

can make it you know if you're

underwriting that you've got to get

anything more than a three percent uh

rent increase over a five-year window

you know three percent a year so maybe

fifteen percent uh if you're looking at

that you're you're teasing yourself

you're being delusional and a lot of

people forget that they're dealing with

other people's hard-earned money you

know somebody else went out and and and

made that money paid those greedy

bastards in Washington to give it to you

yep and uh you owe them uh the

responsibility and the fiduciary duty

didn't know what you're doing when you

take it

there's a real unfortunately there's a

real lack of that some of it is

nefarious some of it I think is just

they don't have the experience they

don't know any better they don't

understand what's around the corner uh

but nevertheless

there is no higher uh obligation than to

that of your investors you know if

you're not if you're not getting in into

deals with folks that are treating your

money as an investor better than they're

treating their own money or you're

probably not in the right spot

um Shannon what type of of deal are you

looking for today is are you slanting

toward residential commercial mixed use

you know uh we look at we do a lot of

multi-family we do a lot of industrial

uh we've done a couple of office deals

um offices obviously uh kind of

treacherous right now nobody knows if

they're coming back to the office or not

um but you know my background is

industrial I did my first industrial

investment for myself in 2001. I've got

two of the original tenants still in the

building you know 22 years later

um and they've grown their business but

they don't want to change their address

you know

um and so we look at that we look at

obviously like we talked we look at

politics we look at Market we want to

drill down into the right markets do the

right deals but we're definitely not in

a hurry we are not somebody that's

sitting there going we got a pipeline we

got to fill we gotta you know we got we

gotta make deal flow happen because we

got to make some fees and we got to do

this we got to do that uh because we

like to make sure that what we're doing

has the right tone to it it's got the

right longevity

um you know we've got the right mix of

investors in it we've got the right tax

credits we've kind of placed all this

together so that we're making sense of

it for ourselves and our investors

because doing a deal for Deal's sake is

I mean that's like that's like running

across the freeway just to see if you

can make it yeah are you looking to

Cluster deals if you if you're you had

mentioned Florida Texas Tennessee once

you start to enter those markets do you

typically look to build around those

deals yeah always you know when we

entered the Houston Market I recognized

very early that the Houston Market is a

strong industrial Market but it's not

great uh for multi-family and you know

my deduction on that was based on you

know how wage growth has has been kind

of slow compared to the rest of Texas

um and it's mainly a blue-collar town uh

you've got a lot of things going on with

the port you know everything that that

is Houston there uh but that means it's

going to be strong for industrial right

and so when we go into that market yeah

we're looking for two and three and and

four deals just because you know you fly

down there to check on your asset to

meet with your management team to do

those kinds of things you don't want to

just check on one deal you know check on

two or three moving into the Florida

Market same way Tennessee same way so we

look to do that but you've got to go get

your foothold and you've got to get

something that's substantial that's

sustainable uh and that's going to do

really well

um you know kind of I look at it that if

you can get one deal that's kind of a

flagship you know so that you're moving

into the market you're moving in strong

uh because if you're going to Cluster

deals and you've got you know your first

deal is mediocre

that's not going to breed a lot of

strength for people watching you do that

into that market for sure so in in that

approach what does it look like from an

Investor's uh perspective are you

securing deals and then sourcing Capital

are you locking the deals up what does

that look like for you yeah so we do a

combination of both uh you know if we're

doing a development deal uh all of my

development deals I will never purchase

a piece of property before I have full

entitlements uh and that means that I

pass on some pieces that I'd like to

have but the reality is you know just

like you described earlier in the show

James you've got four years into this

deal

um if you had to buy the land first to

put those four years in you've got

interest Carry On Your Land you've got

opportunity costs with what you've done

you've got expenses for all of your you

know consultants and everything like

that I'm okay to spend the money on the

Consultants but I want to make sure that

you know if and usually when I go into a

market on a land deal I don't argue too

much on price if it works it works but I

also make it conditional that hey you

know I'll buy your piece of land for

five million dollars if I get it

approved for 300 units right and so you

get your price but in order to do that

you've got to give me the terms right

you know this game James it's pricer

terms right I'll give you the price you

give me the terms we'll get it entitled

as soon as we get it entitled that's

when we start bringing in the investor

Capital so then we come in we have a

couple of standard plans that we really

like as far as how things are built we

modify per the area usually a couple

months after we've secured the ground

and gotten through our entitlements we

usually give ourselves 60 days to close

on the land after entitlements close on

the land we're ready to submit for

building permits we're off and running

and uh making a mess in the ground you

know usually within four months of

entitlements uh and then in that four

month period of time we're bringing in

the capital we've got some great

relationships with some lenders uh that

are you know they're they're very

versatile they're very mobile they're

very agile so we can move into a market

very quickly

um and secure the debt and go vertical

uh if we're buying something that's

existing you know there's a little bit

less leeway you've got a little bit

tighter timeline but all of the things

that you need to prove are there right

so you do your due diligence you secure

your debt at the time you've got that

tied up uh you know and we go into every

single one of our deals for five percent

of the equity stack uh five percent of

the the debt or the sorry yeah the

equity and so I'm I'm always the one

that writes dearness my check right I'm

I I'm always the one that pays for the

due diligence and that comes back to me

uh in what I put into the deal and so

you know that takes that takes some

money uh but it also keeps my investors

from facing any of that risk yeah uh but

you know the other side of that James if

I've got to bring investors in on that

front side I've got to give up some of

that front side when we put our land in

our deals we never mark it up right I

mean we get paid for our entitlements we

get paid for that work but if we were

able to secure the contract on the land

at five million dollars for 300 that's

what it goes into the deal app right

well and so they have the trust and the
faith that everything we do is
transparent because I've never done a
deal James that went perfect I'm waiting
for my first one right that everything
goes like clockwork there's always
something right and we've watched people
for the last three years underwrite to
perfection
which is the disaster well it's not real
right that's the one of the great
questions if you're trying to vet out
um an operator is ask them about what's
gone wrong on deals and if they don't
have a list like forget about it then
they're not in trouble with you because
it never goes according to exactly how
you script it
um you you touched on a lot of things
there I want to highlight number one if
we would not have structured that
initial deal I had referenced where it
was subject to entitlements we would
have been dead you're 100 right even in
a home Market knowing uh intimately what
the market looked like having that
additional carry for those four and a
half years would have killed us
um because I'm a broker initially that's
transitioned onto the equity side and
you have a similar experience it's it's
uh there's no better
job to have in in my mind the experience
we've picked up on The Brokerage side
for 10 years 15 years before we really
jumped in on the investment side we had
the benefit of of
being a part of every deal you can
imagine from the defaulted debt crisis
uh commercial and retail office land
leasing
new builds I mean you name it we were a
part of it and that knowledge that
expertise is what is giving you that
Advantage when you're going and securing
a deal and you're you're paying for the
entitlements and you're making deals
that are subject to and I applaud you
for putting your your land deals in uh
at par because that is is becoming rare
I'm seeing more and more and more that
the there's a huge Delta between that
initial number and what they're actually
putting it in the pro forma for
um so that's that's pretty neat to hear
but you know James the thing that we do
is we also do a true waterfall right so
I mean we're on par with our investors
at five percent equity uh if until they
get their you know preferred returning
up to 12 return and then from there we
step up if we're getting you a 23
percent return and we're getting a very
large slice of that over the top right
so I can afford to put it in the deal
bet on myself just like you're doing
with your money right because if I can
perform like I think I can and I I don't
like I don't like exercise right so I'm
not doing this for the fun of it but
when I can perform like I think I can I
can make the money I should have made on
the land right but I'm betting on the
end product I'm not putting myself in
there I've got enough other businesses
I've got enough other things going that
this is not where I'm making my money on
the entitlement process right I'm making
my money on my exits I'm making my money
on my cash flow and when you align
yourself with people like yourself
people like myself that have done this
often enough and they know where they're
supposed to be paid not where they need
to be paid right I need to get paid
because I got to survive to the next
deal I need to do this to get this done
I need I need to be paid James when my
people win when that project is 6
successful and we're exiting that deal
that's when I need to be paid that's
when it's most tax efficient for me and
that's when my investors deserve to
reward me for my hard work not before
I love it
um if if you had to give some advice or
or resource perhaps is there any books
podcasts things that you would reference
for investors that are looking to step
up their game and take things to the
next level perhaps start raising capital
and getting involved in syndications any
resources that have been super helpful
for you you know honestly James the best
resource you can find I think is
networking with other syndicators figure
out how you can be important to
important people identify people that
you want to Mentor you and don't do what
everybody else does and say hey do you
have a mentoring program where I can
throw money at you and you can tell me
what you think you want that I want to
know but when you can come in I just
recently brought a guy on that is going
to be full-time here in the next little
bit that he came to me and said what do
you have that I can do and I threw in
one of my deals I said analyze this and
scrutinize this and he sent me back
three pages of notes all typed up real
nice he went through everything from the
punctuation to you know this seems a
little bit different than your last
deals comparing to this comparing to
that and was just a complete uh data nut
on this thing and I saw you had a skill
set and I'm like you know would you like
a job here because this is something
that we're lacking and you know he will
become full-time very soon and it's what
he wants right it's what he he always
envisioned and so I I always tell people
you know you can learn more working in
the field if you want to be a developer
go find a job at a development company
go answer the phone start there you know
work with other people that are doing
what you're wanting to do uh because you
can read a lot of books I read a lot of
books I gain nuggets that I could add to
what I'm already doing but the reality
is man and James you know this you get
in the trenches you see two days before
closing the buyer calls up and goes time
for that haircut James and you know
what's happening and until you've done
that and until you've worked through
that until you you watch somebody
negotiate and navigate and walked away
from that battle you're not really going
to understand it so I would tell people
go where they are hang out find out what
you can do to be useful under promise
and over deliver on everything that you
do with them and you will become
somebody that they learn to rely on I
mean I've got people in Tennessee now
that I call because they made themselves
available and what I want to know about
the market I can have data in 24 hours
from I can have pictures from the street
right and and now they're become a
reliable part of my team and at that
point I open up everything I have to
them my resources are your resources my
information is your information and
they're getting an inside love 30 years
of business that they can tap into
because they have become somebody that I
can also rely on so don't underestimate
the power of just networking with with
people that are doing what you're doing
taking a job with people that are doing
what you're doing and learning it from
the ground up and know that just like
the investment itself the exit is a long
way down the road so spending three
years in a development office or five
years in a development office answering
phones working your way up becoming
somebody that's important uh in that
organization to learn from the ground up
is I think one of the best educations
you could ever get and usually you can
get paid to do it
wonderful advice and and the community
overall is absolutely willing to offer

that there's uh today more than ever we
can we can reach just about anyone
through a few clicks and uh this
community I've found to be a wonderful
Community as I was coming up through the
ranks uh people that you you kind of
mystifying you put up on a pedestal were
incredibly approachable really wanted to
help and and now it's it's our turn to
to pay that back and to pay that forward
um Shannon where can people learn most
about your operation where should we
point folks you know the easiest way is
just to go to shannonrobnett.com uh you
can get links to my podcast you'll be
able to get a link to this episode if if
you want to watch it again on a
different platform my book list my
calendar is available if you've got uh
if you've got questions you wanna you
wanna chat we could definitely uh
schedule a call but just
shannonrobnett.com you can get a hold of
me right there all my socials are there
as well well I really appreciate you
taking the time to join us today I know
you're traveling this was super valuable
and uh best of luck man we'll be in
touch James I really appreciate what
you're doing for the community with
bringing information and and bringing
this kind of knowledge that you have
making it accessible to people because
as you and I know that's what builds the
community and that's the only thing
that's going to keep us safe as an
investment Community because there's
still there's still a lot of Village
idiots out there man Amen brother
appreciate you baby enjoy the trip all
right as always everyone please stay
safe